Which Brompton?

jonny_trousers

As it looks as though my circumstances are about to change, and that I'll have to take the train into work two or three times a week, I've been thinking about a Brompton in order to avoid the hell that is the London Underground. The question is, which one to go for. I know next to nothing about the different options and would appreciate the advice of those of you who use them. There's not much in the way of hills either end of the train station and I'd probably put comfort above speed in this situation, but I do, of course, want it to be fun.

Your thoughts gratefully received.

il_principe

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

As it looks as though my circumstances are about to change, and that I'll have to take the train into work two or three times a week, I've been thinking about a Brompton in order to avoid the hell that is the London Underground. The question is, which one to go for. I know next to nothing about the different options and would appreciate the advice of those of you who use them. There's not much in the way of hills either end of the train station and I'd probably put comfort above speed in this situation, but I do, of course, want it to be fun.

Your thoughts gratefully received.

Dunno where in London you are based, but Brompton have just opened a store in Covent Garden (on Long Acre). Staff there are very helpful.

spasypaddy

raw lacquer, single speed, no guards

the_hundredth_idiot

Doesn't sound like you need the 6 speed!

I'd also say don't bother with the titanium version - it's a lot more money for not a lot of weight saving. (I suspect that might be controversial, though).

So that gets you to 2x2 options - M or S and 3-speed or 2-speed. M3L and S2L are available off the peg; other options are factory order. I went for a S3L with slightly reduced gearing and fancy paintwork - I liked the flat bars of the S and I have (effectively) the gearing of a S2L plus a real granny gear for the big hills (I live in the South Downs these days so the granny gear comes in handy on occasion). Sounds like the 2-speed would be adequate for you, though - and it has the advantage of being a bit lighter. I'm only 175cm tall - if I was tall I would probably go for the M bars to get a more upright position for town riding.

Some people say fixing a rear puncture is tricky with the hub gears. I've only had one puncture and it did take a little longer than with derailleurs- but it would be pretty quick another time as I now know what to do with disengaging the hub gears.

The fancy paintwork (raw lacquer) was just me using up the rest of my R2W voucher. Not sure I would have bothered otherwise, although the off the peg colours can be very common.

Definitely get the bag block on the front and a Brompton bag to go on it - saves getting a sweaty back, although putting too much in the bag makes the front end heavy so you will hit potholes quite hard.

Don't bother with a bag to put it in (e.g. when using cloakrooms) - I've used mine once in nearly 3 years and that was
almost because I felt I should (the cloakroom attendant wasn't bothered) and it was a bit of a faff to get the Brompton into the bag.

I'm not convinced the rack is very useful as a rack - though it is great for wheeling it around a station. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the dynamo lights - I have have a couple of Knogs which strap to the bars and seatpost when needed and sit in my bag otherwise.

Bromptons are great. The fold is utterly intuitive once you've done it a couple of times and it folds into a very neat package compared with the other, similar options. It rides fine for short journeys and you can surprise people from the lights as it accelerates very quickly (my pet hate are the roadies who cut in front of me at the lights in a real "Pah, it's only a Brompton" way, then wobble around a bit trying to clip in when the lights turn green - I'm 20 yards ahead of them by the time they have clipped in started pedalling like crazy to try and avoid the SCR-shame of having been taken out by a Brompton.

I think that might be all my thoughts ...

jonny_trousers

I actually work just around the corner from the CG store, but I think I'm going to have to go second-hand to save some pennies.

I'm drawn to the 'S' series bikes, but I could be persuaded otherwise if the 'M's are much more comfortable.

jonny_trousers

Thanks for the detailed reply THI!

tgotb

I'd go with the S. The M bars make for a position which you'll find incredibly upright if you're used to riding a road bike, and they're quite flexible too. Definitely go for mudguards, for the sort of riding you'll be doing, though as someone else said the rack and dynamo are both pretty useless; the front bag option works much better.

If you're even vaguely tall, you might need the extended seatpost. I'm 6', and use an extended extended seatpost because the normal extended one wasn't quite long enough.

Get the Kojak tyres; the Brompton own-brand ones are slow, and the Marathons are both slow and slippery. Stelvios are also great, but discontinued.

The bikes are pretty robust, so buying second-hand makes sense, but watch out for stolen ones.

ex-pat scot

Short answer: S2LX
Kojaks

Long answer:
- 2 speed all you need around London. It's all I use. Tempted by single speed but I find the lower useful as a setting off gear.
- raw lacquer is nice.
- titanium is very nice, light and would help with resale
- Stelvios are the only tyre I've had that I didn't like. I was forever p****cturing. Marathons slow. Kojaks a good compromise.
- new, rather than 2nd hand. They lose so little value that there's not much to be saved
- LED lights for front; the standard Brompton light for the rear.
- stubby bar ends are handy too.

Mike_L

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

I actually work just around the corner from the CG store, but I think I'm going to have to go second-hand to save some pennies.
.

Check out the second-hand prices, you may be surprised.
I bought my Brompton second-hand in 2006 , nothing on Ebay less than £450.
But I resold in 2008 for over £500!

Bromptons do hold their value very well , so if you end up selling on later - you shouldn't lose out much.

If you can do it , buying on C2W scheme & then selling on in a few years time , could actually leave you in profit.

Mike

jonny_trousers

Thanks all. Some really useful advice there.

C2W isn't available to me, I'm afraid, as I'm self employed. I won't rule out buying new, but I'll just keep an eye out on second hand prices first. I'm hoping the crappy weather to come might hit their popularity, but perhaps I'll be out of luck.

mattv

Go try one in a shop. Any decent shop will let you test ride a couple of different bar types and gear sets. If buying new, do it soon. They have a 7 week turnaround for orders, and prices will go up in December....

Agent57

S-type for me. I preferred the slightly sportier position.

I found the Kojak tyres prone to punctures. I had quite a lot, and was leading the office league table by some way. Maybe that's just Manchester & Salford though. I changed to Marathons, and they were much better as far as punctures go - although "slower". I didn't notice any problem with them being slippery on the road though.

I have the front block and a C-bag. Did a grand job, but it is a massive PITA when riding into the wind.

I didn't have a rack or the Brompton lights. Just a standard lamp set clamped high enough up the seat post that the folding still worked properly (the bottom of the seat post has to drop low enough to hold everything in place).

I do have the "hard" suspension block; it makes for a slightly less bouncy ride.

I do have the 3-speed hub gear, and it makes changing rear punctures a little fiddly. Probably more of an issue when repairing in the dark, cold and rain, but I was lucky enough that all of my rear repairs were done in the warmth of my office or home.
I also put SPDs on mine; this has the major advantage of being nicer for pedalling. The downside is that the bike doesn't fold quite as neatly (the left-hand pedal is supposed to fold as well, but obviously my SPD one doesn't).

Bromptons rock.

ajd

My 5c worth on my S2L
1. I ditched the chainset and put on an old Shimano 52x38 on. It stays in the big ring but I have an emergency gear if required. You can flip onto the small ring with your toe with practice - although changing back up requires a dismount. 52 is plenty high enough for cruising at 19-20 mph
2. The stock saddle was terrible for me so I switched it
3. The roller wheels had to go, they rubbed my legs.
4. SPDs fitted - I can't imagine not being clipped in! The standard pedals looked ghastly.
5. The standard saddle position is too far forward so I reversed the clip -pushes the saddle back 3 inches, more like a road bike position :-)
6. I fitted a narrower bb to reduce the q factor

Now, I am very happy.

asprilla

S2L for me too.

Factory rim tape is crap so needs to be changed as soon as possible. You can change the rear gearing using standard Shimano / Sran cassette rings apparently but I'm yet to make that change.

I've got the luggage block and the Carradice M Luggage. Despite the warnings it fits on an S absolutely fine.

whitecot

S2LX for me.

I thought that the LX was worth it given the amount of carrying in the office and across the foot bridge at my home station. Maybe the real issue is the laptop in the S-bag!

I opted for the Marathons as changing tubes on the Brompton doesn't look easy. I have not had a puncture in 3 years of London commuting so I can't say whether that's true or not. MKS Ezy Cube SPDs (so I can remove one on the train) and Ergon bar ends.

meanredspider

I don't know how helpful I can be because I bought my Brompton 2nd hand so I don't really know exactly which model I've got :oops:

It's 3-speed which is pretty excessive in Amsterdam. I did laugh at the man in the Amsterdam Brompton shop because he said 3-speed was good for the bridges Certainly, at 6', the seatpost is just a shade too short. On the plus side, I can just extend it fully and not worry about if it's too high. The dynamo lights are pretty crappy but fine for here where you just need to be seen. The rack and wheels on it are great. I've ordered the rear bag - it can only be as wide as the rack else your feet will hit it. Mine has Marathons - can average 15mph on the flat but going faster is hard work. Also learned that the pedals are pretty low to the ground - have caught them a couple of times. Going secondhand saved me €200 over a new one. The guy said that the newer ones have a slightly longer wheelbase. Very happy with it though.

mattv

If you have a short wheel base, thats an OLD Brompton..... Second hand bikes can have horror stories. Poor maintenance, worn out bits, being stolen..... And you dont save *that* much over a new one.

Agent57

whitecot wrote:

MKS Ezy Cube SPDs

These look pretty handy. Quite expensive, compared to standard SPDs, but I'll bear them in mind if I find I do need the Brompton to take up that little bit less room.

FocusZing

They really do hold their value, great design.

dilemna

I wouldn't buy a 2nd hand Brompton. Sooo many are nicked like my first one an L6 of 2004 vintage. I was gutted. The only time I HAD to let it out of my sight it was pinched and it was locked with D-lock in full view of a CCTV camera. It was still taken.

I would go for a 6 spd as you don't know where you might want to ride it other than London (although there are sone steep hills in London - eg Crouch Hill) maybe do some touring on it but for me an SS or two spd would be far too restrictive in range. Did the Tourmalet and Aubisque on my first one.

Also second hand ones can have worn out bottom pivot hinges, cost to replace £60-70 by a Brompton dealer, just had mine done, bottom brackets and sprockets. Forget a Dynamo and rear rack as they add unnecessary weight. SMP+ tyres are slower but not that slow, you just need to improve your cycling. They are not puncture proof though as I got a puncture in one after only 3 days.

SPDs, bar ends, a better saddle and front block for mounting a bag are a must. I have the old touring pannier which is absolutely fabulous, full metal frame, very rigid and robust. Ortlieb now do a good range of bags for the Brompton. Go for a hard suspension block or use jubilee clips around the standard block.

HTH.

asprilla

Oh yeah, the jubilee clip trick. The suspension blocks are now serrated making this harder so buy some flexible car radiator hose to cut to size and use that as a sheath before adding the clips.

Koncordski

I commute full time on mine since moving further out and having to do half the journey on the train. I went for an S2L because in london it's the best combo of weight/riding position/gearing. 90% of the time you'll be in the top gear but every now and then you'll appreciate having the bail out cog. Means changing either wheel is straightforward because the hubs are a bit more faffy, and lets be honest you'll get a puncture when it's cold and raining not when it's warm and sunny.

Some observations:

Get a 2013 model as the have vastly improved brakes, full alloy levers and housing, the old ones can feel like squeezing a sponge to stop.

Don't pay the premium for the titanium, just get a 1 or 2 speed. Most of the additional weight are the hub geared and dynamo models.

Firm suspension is still not firm enough, do the jubilee clip mod as mentioned above.

Standard tyres are tough but very heavy. I have the Kojaks at 110psi and they are very rapid. Only one puncture in almost a year of london roads but they do cut up easily so check for glass weekly.

Get a carrier block and brompton front bag. You'll simply be amazed how much even the S-Bag can hold and the additional front weight actually improves the ride.

Fit SPD's, don't worry about removable pedals as the folded package with SPD's is a few mm wider than the folding brompton pedal.

Get an S-Bar model, the M feels very weird and upright after a bit.

Enjoy scalping roadies. 8)

ex-pat scot

Brompton Economics:

Bought S2LX Dec 2007 £1000. C2W scheme - net cost to me £580
Rode for 3 years (paid for itself in saved bus fees after 13 months)
Sold Dec 2011 for £750, as I was no longer using it.

Profit £170 for having the bike for 4 years! OK so the tax advantage makes a difference, but the 2nd hand figures are still impressive.

Then I started work in London so needed another. New s2LX now £1320 earlier this year. I still expect it to be worth £1000 when I get round to selling it (if ever).

Things I went for:
titanium
ti seatpost (off ebay)
racing saddle
stubby bar ends (I often ride 20 miles from station at weekends)
luggage block and s bag
rear brompton light
lezyne micro drive lights
Kojaks

Things I didn't go for:
dynamo
rack

Oh and about the "self employed" bit.

If you run your own ltd co, then it can buy the bike for use by its employees. Including reclaiming the VAT (if registered). No benefit in kind if available for use by all employees (and if its your own company, then that means you!).
You could set up your own cycle to work scheme, but having the bike as a company asset is the simplest method.
If you are a true "self employed" (non limited company) person, then your business should still be able to set up c2w scheme or buy a bike as a tax allowable business asset.
There's some info at - Nixon Williams http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 9372,d.Yms

jonny_trousers

Thanks all! That's really helped clarify things. I'll definitely look into buying new.

My self employed situation has me claiming commuting expenses, which includes commuter bikes, but I still need to find the money to pay for them. I'll pop into the Brompton Store soon.

meanredspider

mattv wrote:

If you have a short wheel base, thats an OLD Brompton..... Second hand bikes can have horror stories. Poor maintenance, worn out bits, being stolen..... And you dont save *that* much over a new one.

Mine is the longer one. Bought it from the non-franchised bit of the Amsterdam Brompton dealers - so they know their Bromptons inside out - and a year's warranty to boot. I reckon I saved about £300 versus specifying the same bike new - and judging by the prices of the older ones they had in stock, I'll lose very little if I sell it on later.

t4tomo

My 8 pennies worth:

S bars all the way especially if used to a road bike, M are bit sit up and beg and flexi. Stubby bar ends are a nice to have for longer rides.

2 or 3 gears is fine around town. The SA hub is mega reliable but yes is slightly heavier than the 2 gear model.

It's not the hub gears that make changing the rear tyre hard, it's the chain tensioner!

I went for titanium bits but it is a big extra cost for about 1.5kg saving, I'm not sure it's essential - I justified it as offset by C2W saving.

Rear rack is dead weight, if you want luggage capacity use a front mounted bag. You get some little wheel things anyway on the rackless models.

Ditto dynamo, most lights fit fine, just buy what suits your needs.

I use Marathons (not pluses). I found them much gripper than the standard brompton tyres and better Puncture resistance.

Definitely get mudguards - saves you getting covered in crap if you use it in your "good clothes".

Don't brake hard in the wet whilst turning on road metal, you will somersault over the bars, at least I think that's what happened - no serious harm done.

ugo.santalucia

I did think about a Brompton and came to the conclusion... you want single speed and flat handlebar

Christophe3967

I'm 6ft with a dodgy back and definitely need both the extending seat-post and M bars. If I was replacing it now I wouldn't have the dynamo lights again (weight and drag). Not sure whether I'd opt for a 3 speed SA hub again either, just one or two gears would be fine. Use mine mostly in Bristol & Leeds and only really need the two fast gears with the larger front ring. Rear luggage rack has extra trolley wheels - makes it much easier to pull round the supermarket on the way home, and protects your mudguard, but not really practical for anything else - and the Bag on the front means that you soon forget you're riding something with small wheels... and is practical, but possibly wouldn't get the standard Brompton offering again. Marathon tyres have been v good - handling is excellent for what you're riding, but are a bugger to get on when new. The bike bag for £25 is worth having - you can disguise the bike as a large suitcase when you don't want to draw attention to it (e.g. leaving it behind the receptionist's desk). Brilliant bikes