OT - Smart Meters

Headhuunter

EDF Energy has offered to replace the communal electric meter in our building (for the hallway lights etc) with a all singing and dancing "smart meter" for free. Their email says that it will automatically take its own readings and email them out for accurate billing and allow me to view real time usage (whatever that means)... All I have to do is email "Yes" with my phone number.

Is this a good idea? Has anyone got any experience with these? If I do this will I be forever tied to EDF for example?

rubertoe

Are you the freeholder?

spen666

How will the meter email the readings?

It will either need a sim card or to be able to connect to a wi fi network

Or am I wrong?



As rubertoe states, I suspect it will need the freeholders consent

Headhuunter

I'm not the freeholder but we exercised our "right to manage" so I am now a Director of the management company and I (and the other residents) have the right to make our own decisions on things like this. We sacked the ridiculously overpriced management company that the freeholder had put in place (and was no doubt taking backhanders from)... That's not the problem, I'm more concerned about the longer term implications of this meter being installed.

I think I made the bit about it emailing readings up. I don't really know how it would communicate the readings to EDF but apparently it does....

rjsterry

This might be useful

http://www.which.co.uk/switch/energy-advice/smart-meters

No direct experience, but my folks have one. I'd have thought they would be more use on a flat by flat basis: there's no pint having real time energy use data if the thing's locked in a utilities cupboard in the communal stairwell. You want it on the wall in your kitchen or something like that.

rubertoe

Then that is that issue resolved.

next. Is it going to cost you anything?

tgotb

Headhuunter wrote:

I think I made the bit about it emailing readings up. I don't really know how it would communicate the readings to EDF but apparently it does....

Don't know this for sure, but I've an idea it communicates via the electricity line. Would certainly be technically possible with a smart meter in each house talking to a gizmo in the substation.

Headhuunter

rjsterry wrote:

This might be useful

http://www.which.co.uk/switch/energy-advice/smart-meters

No direct experience, but my folks have one. I'd have thought they would be more use on a flat by flat basis: there's no pint having real time energy use data if the thing's locked in a utilities cupboard in the communal stairwell. You want it on the wall in your kitchen or something like that.

Thanks. I just phoned EDF and apparently it has its own SIM which allows it to communicate elec usage and billing info. However, as per the link above, if I choose to leave EDF it's unlikely that their smart meter would be compatible with the new supplier so would have to switched to standard mode or be replaced again with another smart meter or back to a normal meter again. I'm erring towards "if it ain't broke then don't fix it", also they have to switch off the electrics for 30 mins which will no doubt c0ck up the fire alarm system which I'll then have to sort out. Although apparently the government wants to roll out smart meters across the country in every house from 2014 so we may end up with 1 anyway and this 1 is being offered free....

BelgianBeerGeek

If it's in a communal area, how does it work? Send the bill to the company and then you all divvy up? If this is covered in the rent anyway, it may be pointless.

We had one, but I found it pointless anyway. There is only me and Mrs BBGeek and we're not exactly profligate with the leccy. I could see the point if we had teenage kids in the house and they were always leaving stuff switched on and I was paying. But as it is, what I am I going to do? Switch off the fridge to make the meter numbers go down?

Headhuunter

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

If it's in a communal area, how does it work? Send the bill to the company and then you all divvy up? If this is covered in the rent anyway, it may be pointless.

We had one, but I found it pointless anyway. There is only me and Mrs BBGeek and we're not exactly profligate with the leccy. I could see the point if we had teenage kids in the house and they were always leaving stuff switched on and I was paying. But as it is, what I am I going to do? Switch off the fridge to make the meter numbers go down?

At the moment the communal electric bill is in the name of the management company which we all own. When the bills come we split them between the 4 flats. Ground rent is still payable but that's separate. However as you say there's no real benefit to us in having real time information on how the electricity is used, it only powers the communal hallway lights and the fire alarm. There are a couple of plug sockets in the hallway though so in theory I suppose residents of flats could sneakily steal a bit of the communal electricity by running a cable from their flat into the hall but I doubt anyone would bother... To be honest I don't think it's worth bothering with the smart meter - the present meter works fine anyway!

cyclingprop

There is no point unless the meters measure usage in a way which apportions a charge to a flat.

Headhuunter

cyclingprop wrote:

There is no point unless the meters measure usage in a way which apportions a charge to a flat.

There's no way it could do that unless it had some kind of fingerprint recognition on the light switches or something... Anyway the bills are only about £100 for the whole year so that's only £25 ish per flat anyway

cyclingprop

Headhuunter wrote:

cyclingprop wrote:

There is no point unless the meters measure usage in a way which apportions a charge to a flat.

There's no way it could do that unless it had some kind of fingerprint recognition on the light switches or something... Anyway the bills are only about £100 for the whole year so that's only £25 ish per flat anyway

Oh. I read it as you had one meter for the entire building and shared the electric bill, rather than this meter just being for the communal bits. Thought it sounded odd.

It is a bit overkill as a meter for small use, but if it avoids estimates it may be useful?

Daz555

I'm not convinced by them if I'm honest.

There have been some serious security concerns raised about them. The potential for a crippling cyber attack bringing down hundreds of thousand of meters at the same time looks on the cards.

On a simpler level they also make it very easy for your supplier to cut you off - as it is all done with software this will probably happen to a few people due to some numpty hungover at the call centre on a Saturday morning.

Reading up on them it sounds like a complete waste of customers money (we are paying for them afterall) for very little benefit for most users. The only winners will be smart meter manufacturers and installers, and no doubt the energy companies themselves.

mmuk

at £100 a year, why not get rid of the meter, and save the standing charge payment?

if it's 17p/day, that's £60 of the bill, just for the sake of having a meter - put the leccy thru a residents meter, cough up £10 a year each, and you're quids in! (£15 will buy a few bike related things ...)


mm

Headhuunter

mmuk wrote:

at £100 a year, why not get rid of the meter, and save the standing charge payment?

if it's 17p/day, that's £60 of the bill, just for the sake of having a meter - put the leccy thru a residents meter, cough up £10 a year each, and you're quids in! (£15 will buy a few bike related things ...)


mm

Hmmm, not sure how easy it would be simply to remove the meter and rewire everything through the meter for 1 of the flats, also not sure that anyone would want that in case of any future problems. It's prob more expensive but with a separate meter there's no disagreements over how much the communal costs are...

Headhuunter

Daz555 wrote:

I'm not convinced by them if I'm honest.

There have been some serious security concerns raised about them. The potential for a crippling cyber attack bringing down hundreds of thousand of meters at the same time looks on the cards.

On a simpler level they also make it very easy for your supplier to cut you off - as it is all done with software this will probably happen to a few people due to some numpty hungover at the call centre on a Saturday morning.

Reading up on them it sounds like a complete waste of customers money (we are paying for them afterall) for very little benefit for most users. The only winners will be smart meter manufacturers and installers, and no doubt the energy companies themselves.

Yup, to be honest they do sound like a waste of time. I don't really need to know exactly how my/the communal electric usage breaks down per day/per room etc. It's just me and the other half in a small flat, we're barely ever there anyway - most of the day at work, out at weekends etc. We just go home to watch a bit of telly in the evening and go to sleep...

Headhuunter

cyclingprop wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

cyclingprop wrote:

There is no point unless the meters measure usage in a way which apportions a charge to a flat.

There's no way it could do that unless it had some kind of fingerprint recognition on the light switches or something... Anyway the bills are only about £100 for the whole year so that's only £25 ish per flat anyway

Oh. I read it as you had one meter for the entire building and shared the electric bill, rather than this meter just being for the communal bits. Thought it sounded odd.

It is a bit overkill as a meter for small use, but if it avoids estimates it may be useful?

Estimates are easy to deal with though - you just read the meter yourself and email them....

Headhuunter

Daz555 wrote:

I'm not convinced by them if I'm honest.

There have been some serious security concerns raised about them. The potential for a crippling cyber attack bringing down hundreds of thousand of meters at the same time looks on the cards.

On a simpler level they also make it very easy for your supplier to cut you off - as it is all done with software this will probably happen to a few people due to some numpty hungover at the call centre on a Saturday morning.

Reading up on them it sounds like a complete waste of customers money (we are paying for them afterall) for very little benefit for most users. The only winners will be smart meter manufacturers and installers, and no doubt the energy companies themselves.

There must be some pretty major benefit to the big utility firms otherwise they would push back against the government and wouldn't offer to install them for free.... They must see potential profit in installing them

cyclingprop

Headhuunter wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

I'm not convinced by them if I'm honest.

There have been some serious security concerns raised about them. The potential for a crippling cyber attack bringing down hundreds of thousand of meters at the same time looks on the cards.

On a simpler level they also make it very easy for your supplier to cut you off - as it is all done with software this will probably happen to a few people due to some numpty hungover at the call centre on a Saturday morning.

Reading up on them it sounds like a complete waste of customers money (we are paying for them afterall) for very little benefit for most users. The only winners will be smart meter manufacturers and installers, and no doubt the energy companies themselves.

There must be some pretty major benefit to the big utility firms otherwise they would push back against the government and wouldn't offer to install them for free.... They must see potential profit in installing them

No necessarily. It would be far easier for the industry to leave existing meters as is. However HMG has a commitment to reduce CO2 emissions, and one of the ways to do this is to reduce energy consumption.

tgotb

Headhuunter wrote:

couple of plug sockets in the hallway

Nothing personal, because I know this has become general usage, but why the h*ll are they now called "plug sockets"? What sort of socket does one have installed around the house (or anywhere else for that matter) that isn't there so that something can be plugged into it? I don't come to work on my person bicycle, wearing foot shoes, hand gloves and a head helmet, so why do I have to have plug sockets in my house? At least calling them electrical sockets would provide some additional information...

Headhuunter wrote:

There must be some pretty major benefit to the big utility firms otherwise they would push back against the government and wouldn't offer to install them for free.... They must see potential profit in installing them

Maybe the cost of paying someone to knock on people's doors to read the meter? They've already reduced that cost by allowing people to submit their own meter readings online, but for that system to work they must still have to read it themselves at certain intervals. I guess they'll also be able to take much more frequent meter readings, which means they'll be able to forecast their cashflows more accurately...

Headhuunter

TGOTB wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

couple of plug sockets in the hallway

Nothing personal, because I know this has become general usage, but why the h*ll are they now called "plug sockets"? What sort of socket does one have installed around the house (or anywhere else for that matter) that isn't there so that something can be plugged into it? I don't come to work on my person bicycle, wearing foot shoes, hand gloves and a head helmet, so why do I have to have plug sockets in my house? At least calling them electrical sockets would provide some additional information...

Shrug... That's what I've always called them but then I would also say "phone socket" or "aerial socket"...

tgotb

Headhuunter wrote:

Shrug... That's what I've always called them but then I would also say "phone socket" or "aerial socket"...

Ah, but those tell you what sort of socket they are. You plug your phone into a phone socket (using the plug on the end of the phone cable). The plug on the end of your TV aerial cable goes into the aerial socket. They could all be described as plug sockets, because they're all designed to have something plugged into them.

As I said, nothing personal; I know I'm probably the only pedant who gets wound up by this...

cyclingprop

TGOTB wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Shrug... That's what I've always called them but then I would also say "phone socket" or "aerial socket"...

Ah, but those tell you what sort of socket they are. You plug your phone into a phone socket (using the plug on the end of the phone cable). The plug on the end of your TV aerial cable goes into the aerial socket. They could all be described as plug sockets, because they're all designed to have something plugged into them.

As I said, nothing personal; I know I'm probably the only pedant who gets wound up by this...

I bet you hate ATM machines and PIN numbers too.