what sort of offence is it to throw a bottle at someone...

gingaman

...when driving?

i witnessed some pretty abysmal behaviour from a signwritten van last evening. the driver tried to throw a bottle at another road user he had just cut up after blocking traffic and shouting abuse. i am writing an email to his company but am unsure if and what sort of offence throwing a bottle is. can anyone help?

thanks

BelgianBeerGeek

If it hits someone - assault. If it damages something - criminal damage. If neither, possibly a public order type offence.

If the driver is concentrating more on aiming a bottle than on his driving, maybe careless/inconsiderate driving.

Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer.

gingaman

Thanks BelgianBeerGeek.

[email]I am writing to complain about one of your drivers, and his abusive behaviour towards other road users. I was adjacent to your driver and then one car behind him when he changed lanes and witnessed the following interchange.

Yesterday evening at around 1600 hrs. coming through Woking on the A320, one lane is for straight on under the train bridge and one is for turning right. Your driver (in the signwritten van with reg plate AE12LAL) had positioned himself in the right hand lane. Traffic is always busy here and switching between lanes can be tricky, but with a little patience it can be achieved well in advance of the lanes splitting.

Why then did your driver, after having already successfully changed lanes, feel the need to stop his van (blocking all traffic under the bridge), and open the driver’s door to lean out and hurl abuse at the lady whom he had just cut up? As bad as this is, he then tried to throw a drinks bottle at the following drivers car but failed and it landed on his own roof.

I hope this isn’t the sort of aggressive attitude your company advocates, and that at the very least you could have a stern word with your driver.

Regards &c.....[/email]

Bit of a fool really, that driver.

mpatts

Re your letter....

I'd leave out the 'why' of what wound him up, and concentrate on the behaviour. Simple "I witnessed driver of van reg no XXXXX acting agressively to other road users by XXXXX" is more powerful.

spen666

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

If it hits someone - assault. If it damages something - criminal damage. If neither, possibly a public order type offence.

If the driver is concentrating more on aiming a bottle than on his driving, maybe careless/inconsiderate driving.

Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer.

It doesn't have to hit someone to be an assault!

If it hits, it is a battery

"An assault is actually committed when D intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate and unlawful violence"



Pedantry over


There are also offences of dangerous or careless driving that may be made out

BelgianBeerGeek

spen666 wrote:

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

If it hits someone - assault. If it damages something - criminal damage. If neither, possibly a public order type offence.

If the driver is concentrating more on aiming a bottle than on his driving, maybe careless/inconsiderate driving.

Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer.

It doesn't have to hit someone to be an assault!

If it hits, it is a battery

"An assault is actually committed when D intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate and unlawful violence"

Pedantry over


There are also offences of dangerous or careless driving that may be made out

Fair enough. I was trying to keep it simple, so didn't want to go into attempted criminal damage/battery etc or the legal definitions of assault. Too early in the morning for pedantry.

spen666

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

....

Fair enough. I was trying to keep it simple, so didn't want to go into attempted criminal damage/battery etc or the legal definitions of assault. Too early in the morning for pedantry.

Not enough assault charges are brought in the circumstances where its the apprehension rather than the battery that occurs

CanalRider

Causing a danger to another road user. Sec 22 Road Traffic Act.
Assault with or without battery
Littering

spen666

CanalRider wrote:

Causing a danger to another road user. Sec 22 Road Traffic Act.
Assault with or without battery
Littering

not sure that S22 is made out on the facts given

22 Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions.
If a person in charge of a vehicle causes or permits the vehicle or a trailer drawn by it to remain at rest on a road in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to involve a danger of injuryto other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

I think you would struggle to persuade a court any offence of that nature is made out on these facts.

bompington

spen666 wrote:

Pedantry over

If only ;-)

EDIT: come to think of it, in this day and age "failure to recycle a bottle" is probably the most serious charge that could be laid?

tootsie323

Is there not a more generalised law to sanction against being a tw@t?

CanalRider

spen666 wrote:

CanalRider wrote:

Causing a danger to another road user. Sec 22 Road Traffic Act.
Assault with or without battery
Littering

not sure that S22 is made out on the facts given

22 Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions.
If a person in charge of a vehicle causes or permits the vehicle or a trailer drawn by it to remain at rest on a road in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to involve a danger of injuryto other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

I think you would struggle to persuade a court any offence of that nature is made out on these facts.

My bad. Sec 22a(1)(b) Causing danger to another road user. Might need a legal argument though

The Rookie

Littering......

Wooliferkins

tootsie323 wrote:

Is there not a more generalised law to sanction against being a tw@t?

Would require politicians legislating against themselves? Never going to happen

gingaman

Wooliferkins wrote:

tootsie323 wrote:

Is there not a more generalised law to sanction against being a tw@t?

Would require politicians legislating against themselves? Never going to happen

LOL

the_cyclist_of_catan

tootsie323 wrote:

Is there not a more generalised law to sanction against being a tw@t?

Only two offences are required: being out of order, and being bang out of order. It would simplify the criminal law no end, and I doubt that juries would find it any harder to apply than all the offences that they currently have to deal with.

Did you know that here in the UK have something like 150 different sexual offences? The French make do with around 6. But then, their Sexual Offences Act probably wasn't *deliberately* drafted in a way which makes having sex with crustaceans an offence. I don't know if anyone, anywhere has ever sexually abused a lobster, but we can all sleep more soundly at night knowing that our Parliament debated the matter and decided that yes, they would word the bestiality offences in a way to make it illegal. You could not make it up.

jimmypippa

bompington wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Pedantry over

If only ;-)

EDIT: come to think of it, in this day and age "failure to recycle a bottle" is probably the most serious charge that could be laid?

Oh...

It would be ironic to get him for littering, which can come with a hefty fine.