Do I say something?

daddy0

I'm commuting to London this week, and I'm sorta enjoying seeing so many cyclists on the road, sorta. Most of them are RLJ eejits though. One guy in particular went the same way as me and jumped every set of lights, I would then overtake him when I set off, only to have him go past at the next set of lights. Looked like a well to do businessman, 50 years+, expensive road bike... He wasn't the only one of course. Eventually he stopped at a set that he couldn't jump and I felt like saying something to him, but didn't. What would you do/say?

Kieran_Burns

Been done to death.

This is a marmite question: some do, some don't.

I would, others wouldn't

Do you step in when someone is breaking the law? Or do you leave it to the 'authorities'?

Social obligation and all that.

raymondo60

Regular London commuter here, 50-something male, though not on a carbon superbike (steel-framed SS usually) - must see dozens of examples you quote on a daily basis - often pass them on road then they go through next red light etc - I call it 'Red Light Yoyo-ing'. Can only control my own behaviour and attitude, so don't bother saying anything generally. I do point out faults on bikes if I notice them ('Oi mate, you back light isn't working/rear wheel isn't there' etc) but telling someone they are breaking the law when it is blindindingly obvious to them that they are breaking the law doesn't seem worth it really.

However..............................I think there may come a point when the 'authorities' (police/local government/government etc) WILL start to take more of an interest in the behaviour of cyclists, particularly where that behaviour contravenes the law. That could mean a variety of potential 'solutions'; licenses for bicycles, number plates for bicycles, any number of unpleasant things that could remove the freedom and joy of just riding a bicycle. That could affect all of us, law-abiding cyclists as well as others.

Does that mean..... that it is time for us 'cyclists' to start thinking about how we could prevent such a course of action? We all know the old saying - 'Either you get your house in order or we'll do it for you'; All it would take for the situation to escalate is a couple of nasty incidents involving RLJ-ing - god forbid but someone gets killed by a cyclist etc - and the baloon could go up.

So, by not 'saying anything' am I and others like me actually doing the future of cycling a disservice? Is it time we start 'policing' cycling ourselves....?

dhope

Wouldn't worry, you'll double your commute time if you stop to tell people off for RLJing

rubertoe

Just a Tut, a Roll of the eyes and a shake of the head for me, just to show angry car driver we are not all the same...

First.Aspect

No, don't bother. Occasionally my pique gets the better of me and I say something, but people just react in the same way as criticism of their driving. A deep breath is the better option.

A possible exception is someone putting their life at risk. A quiet word could then be helpful. I've done this to stealth cyclists in the past, for example, some of whom then get off and walk.

Gallywomack

What route are you taking, Daddy0? I come in from Bromley too, either taking the OKR or via Deptford/Surrey Quays/Rotherhithe/Bermondsey from Lewisham. I wouldn't say RLJers are anything like a majority on either route, at least not after 8 when I go in. There are usually one or two guys who irritate you by continually 'yoyoing' of course.

Anyhoo, I'm more inclined to comment on stuff that I think betrays poor hazard perception than RLJing. I don't really see RLJing as a serious safety issue in the vast majority of cases. As Raymondo says, it's not like they don't realise they aren't supposed to run red lights, so there's a good likelihood that any remarks won't be well received. NB I once found myself at a series of reds with a bloke who kept bellowing 'RED LIGHT! RED LIGHT!' at everyone who RLJed and found that even more irritating than the RLJing itself...

Headhuunter

Why do "we" feel the need to police "ourselves"? We are not some kind of homogeonous community. Car drivers don't feel the need to police each other, you don't feel the need to police motorist on the phone or speeding etc so why "police" other cyclists?

markhewitt1978

You can suggest all sorts of 'solutions', but the only real solution is getting police out on bicycles and ticketing people. But that would require resources and effort, which the police don't do. So we're stuck with the present situation of me cycling around County Durham still being accused of being a red light jumper when the majority of my rides don't go through any traffic lights at all.

daddy0

Gallywomack wrote:

What route are you taking, Daddy0? I come in from Bromley too, either taking the OKR or via Deptford/Surrey Quays/Rotherhithe/Bermondsey from Lewisham. I wouldn't say RLJers are anything like a majority on either route, at least not after 8 when I go in. There are usually one or two guys who irritate you by continually 'yoyoing' of course.

Anyhoo, I'm more inclined to comment on stuff that I think betrays poor hazard perception than RLJing. I don't really see RLJing as a serious safety issue in the vast majority of cases. As Raymondo says, it's not like they don't realise they aren't supposed to run red lights, so there's a good likelihood that any remarks won't be well received. NB I once found myself at a series of reds with a bloke who kept bellowing 'RED LIGHT! RED LIGHT!' at everyone who RLJed and found that even more irritating than the RLJing itself...

Bromley rd, through Catford, Lewisham, A20, OKR, London Bridge. I retract what I said about "most of them" - it was probably half. Left Bromley just after 8, got to London about 9. I am on a knackered looking Scott Sportster with a rear rack and kinesis forks, say hi!

Gallywomack

I'll keep an eye out - we can share a tut and shake of the head at lights...

Edit: I'll be the glasses-wearing chubby bloke on a black Genesis with full guards.

DonDaddyD

I've seen it so many times and been shouted out by cyclists so I usually don't bother. Plus, during the odd occassion when I RLJ - crossings not junctions -I don't like people shouting at me.

Pufftmw

Daddy0 wrote:

Gallywomack wrote:

What route are you taking, Daddy0? I come in from Bromley too, either taking the OKR or via Deptford/Surrey Quays/Rotherhithe/Bermondsey from Lewisham. I wouldn't say RLJers are anything like a majority on either route, at least not after 8 when I go in. There are usually one or two guys who irritate you by continually 'yoyoing' of course.

Anyhoo, I'm more inclined to comment on stuff that I think betrays poor hazard perception than RLJing. I don't really see RLJing as a serious safety issue in the vast majority of cases. As Raymondo says, it's not like they don't realise they aren't supposed to run red lights, so there's a good likelihood that any remarks won't be well received. NB I once found myself at a series of reds with a bloke who kept bellowing 'RED LIGHT! RED LIGHT!' at everyone who RLJed and found that even more irritating than the RLJing itself...

Bromley rd, through Catford, Lewisham, A20, OKR, London Bridge. I retract what I said about "most of them" - it was probably half. Left Bromley just after 8, got to London about 9. I am on a knackered looking Scott Sportster with a rear rack and kinesis forks, say hi!

Should be around my sorta time - leave about 8.15 from Lee Hi Road, so hit Loampit 08:20 - Black Ghost & courier company top

cyclingprop

Pufftmw wrote:

Daddy0 wrote:

Gallywomack wrote:

What route are you taking, Daddy0? I come in from Bromley too, either taking the OKR or via Deptford/Surrey Quays/Rotherhithe/Bermondsey from Lewisham. I wouldn't say RLJers are anything like a majority on either route, at least not after 8 when I go in. There are usually one or two guys who irritate you by continually 'yoyoing' of course.

Anyhoo, I'm more inclined to comment on stuff that I think betrays poor hazard perception than RLJing. I don't really see RLJing as a serious safety issue in the vast majority of cases. As Raymondo says, it's not like they don't realise they aren't supposed to run red lights, so there's a good likelihood that any remarks won't be well received. NB I once found myself at a series of reds with a bloke who kept bellowing 'RED LIGHT! RED LIGHT!' at everyone who RLJed and found that even more irritating than the RLJing itself...

Bromley rd, through Catford, Lewisham, A20, OKR, London Bridge. I retract what I said about "most of them" - it was probably half. Left Bromley just after 8, got to London about 9. I am on a knackered looking Scott Sportster with a rear rack and kinesis forks, say hi!

Should be around my sorta time - leave about 8.15 from Lee Hi Road, so hit Loampit 08:20 - Black Ghost & courier company top

What's that, NEW SPORT?

daviesee

Bigger question.
Would it make any difference?

notsoblue

Headhuunter wrote:

Why do "we" feel the need to police "ourselves"? We are not some kind of homogeonous community. Car drivers don't feel the need to police each other, you don't feel the need to police motorist on the phone or speeding etc so why "police" other cyclists?

Hear hear...

For the record, on my (now only 3 mile) commute commute I rarely see anyone RLJ.

Most of them are RLJ eejits though.

I doubt it...

Mikey23

I don't think rlj is an issue in Cornwall. But whether to say something or not is an interesting question. I have challenged drivers on mobiles when I get the opportunity. Does that make me a cantankerous old git? Probably. Does it result in a change in behaviour? Unlikely. Might it just possibly save a life? Possibly. Prose it make me feel better? Undoubtedly...

The only problem is that you kind of have to live a squeaky clean life yourself before criticising others. And you must be prepared to receive it as you would expect it to be received when you dish it out.

Mad_Malx

Mikey23 wrote:

I don't think rlj is an issue in Cornwall.

Cornish acquaintance of mine (early 60s) claims he remembers people driving from miles around around to see the first Cornish lights in Truro. Do you have a few more now?

arran77

Mad_Malx wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

I don't think rlj is an issue in Cornwall.

Cornish acquaintance of mine (early 60s) claims he remembers people driving from miles around around to see the first Cornish lights in Truro. Do you have a few more now?

Says the man from Wiltshire

mtb-idle

depending on what mood I am in and how dangerous the RLJ is I can sometimes be heard saying 'ar*ehole' in a loud voice to riders who jump lights, especially when they pull some kind of stupid manoeuvre at speed to avoid all the other riders sitting at the lights.

Does it make any difference? I doubt it although they often look sheepish they never turn back to challenge me.

Does it make me feel any better? Sometimes

Does it amuse other riders? Some people look at me and nod in my direction, many others just choose to ignore me.

Do I care? No.

Mad_Malx

arran77 wrote:

Mad_Malx wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

I don't think rlj is an issue in Cornwall.

Cornish acquaintance of mine (early 60s) claims he remembers people driving from miles around around to see the first Cornish lights in Truro. Do you have a few more now?

Says the man from Wiltshire

We don't need red lights - we've got this:

gbsahne001

Headhuunter wrote:

Car drivers don't feel the need to police each other, you don't feel the need to police motorist on the phone or speeding etc so why "police" other cyclists?

Not quite correct...

http://www.driving.co.uk/features/rise-in-dashboard-cameras-recording-drivers-mistakes/14458

http://www.policewitness.com/

Sharkyssurfers

i had this this morning on the embankment, 4 people jumped the lights, so had to say something called them idiots and got the bird so said to them its your death and let them carry on, further on, one of the tools decided to go down the inside of a lorry, if the lights has changed he would of been under it!. At the end of the day i see it as do you drive a car, do you do then same and jump lights NO, so why do it on another form of transport.

As one user has said many times you can never train an idiot

Headhuunter

gbsahne wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Car drivers don't feel the need to police each other, you don't feel the need to police motorist on the phone or speeding etc so why "police" other cyclists?

Not quite correct...

http://www.driving.co.uk/features/rise-in-dashboard-cameras-recording-drivers-mistakes/14458

http://www.policewitness.com/

Yes the police may be trying to encourage this but in reality how many car drivers feel the need to say something when they see another driver acting dangerously? Unless it directly impacts them...

daddy0

Yesterday I had a particularly bad day, up at 4am with the baby, and got some bad news at lunchtime. So on the way home I was a bit more "vocal" than normal. One guy kept jumping lights in front of me only to be caught up, so I told him that if he was going to jump reds to at least ride fast and get out of my way. It did make a difference, he then sped up and jumped the next red at speed, almost killing himself... :roll:

On another note - the junction on the north side of London Bridge is INSANE at 8:30am...

IanREmery

Slightly OT, but this post struck a chord with me.

Mikey23 wrote:

I don't think rlj is an issue in Cornwall. But whether to say something or not is an interesting question. I have challenged drivers on mobiles when I get the opportunity. Does that make me a cantankerous old git? Probably. Does it result in a change in behaviour? Unlikely. Might it just possibly save a life? Possibly. Prose it make me feel better? Undoubtedly...

No, it makes you a citizen with social responsibilities.

I do that as well around where I live in South Wales (and often get piles of pretty unpleasant abuse in return). I do it simply because it could be my 4yo son out walking with my wife, crossing a zebra crossing who gets mowed down and killed because some idiot is on their mobile phone and not concentrating on the road.

Drivers on mobile phones are far too numerous for my liking in the South Wales area. Seems like every journey I make I see at least one muppet. Saw a White Van Woman the other day, driving one handed, fag in the other hand, mobile phone tucked into right shoulder. Makes me mad. There is never a policeman around when you need one either.