Custom Steel Rouke - Worth it?

2

Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Why do I always get engulfed in such pointless discussions? Mental note not to get involved in these... :?
    left the forum March 2023
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    Ugo its fine. The purpose of posting is to get a balanced view from people on a given subject who are more experienced than me. I know you ride steel bikes so I will take your comments into account when deciding what to do. The decision is though still mine to make. Would love to hear from anyone who owns a Bob Jackson Vulcan or Olympus..........
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    robbo2011 wrote:
    Quite bizarre how the custom wheel builder who tailors wheels to suit particular riders then says that custom bikes are all the same and just a load of tubes welded together. Beyond Irony.

    From what I've read the main reason he, and anyone else who cites handbuilt wheels as a better option, is their serviceability, which is not the main consideration when buying a frame.
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    Checked out Roberts and I am quite impressed with what I have seen. Shame its more dosh than the Rourke though :?
  • kangarouge
    kangarouge Posts: 210
    Just one further point - don't you find those seat stays wrapped around the end of the top tube near the seatpost just a bit ugly? I personally think it looks a bit crude and unfinished and consequently wouldn't buy a Rourke frame for that reason.
    If I was buying a custom made frame for myself I would want the finish to look really good.
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    If I was buying a steel bike it would be a Tommasini Tecno in this colour scheme. Far more reasonable too...

    tecno2.jpg
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  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    NapoleonD wrote:
    If I was buying a steel bike it would be a Tommasini Tecno in this colour scheme. Far more reasonable too...

    tecno2.jpg

    NAP - This looks interesting but cant see how you order one from the website plus no pricing?

    I think I am starting to question the whole "custom" thing now as I think might be happier to save a few quid and have a "custom" paint scheme on a off the peg steel frame - fickle I know! Will keep looking though.
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    You can buy direct. its 1500 euros. considering the massive range of geometry I'm pretty sure they have all bases covered! I was going to buy one but just won an Extreme Power in ebay in the colour scheme I always wanted. They are great with email enqs.
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  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    The UK distributor is 2 miles from where I live!
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    Result!!!
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    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • nweststeyn
    nweststeyn Posts: 1,574
    Since the Shand got a mention at the start I thought I'd contribute.

    The reason I went for a Shand 853 frame is mostly because they are the builder local to me. When it comes to the actual bike, the only thing thats 'custom' is the paintwork... For the rest, it is a standard geometry XL frame they have already designed. The reason is, as mentioned before, that I am of fairly standard proportions for a human. The frame is amazing and the best bike I've owned, the quality of the craftsmanship is superb but the main appeal has to be that it's handmade locally to me and the custom paint option makes it unique.

    If I lived in England, I would find the most local builder to me (with a good reputation) and probably go with them, regardless of whether they are known for their superb lugwork, fillet brazing, graphics, whatever... That's just me though, keeping it 'local' appeals to me (says the guy with the Campag groupset but I'm a bit limited for options there!).
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    So I think I have it down to three bikes. The others mentioned on here all look good but I feel the geometry on some of these frames wont suit me.

    Shortlist is Roberts Master Pro 853, Enigma Elite, Rourke 853

    Spent quite a bit of time with the guys at Roberts and their bikes are really very nice. Off to Enigma soon to see what they can offer.
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    Just a quick update as I had a fairly productive day today. Managed to speak to a few well know builders today and it has become clear that the likes of Roberts, Feather, Tom Donhou are either out of my price range or have really long lead in times (or both) so the shortlist is getting shorter.

    This leaves Enigma, Rourke and having contacted the manufacturer the Tomassini is still potentially viable.

    So out of these three what do you reckon???

    Enigma Elite HSS Spirit Frame and Carbon Fork £1500ish with two colour paint
    Rourke 853 Frame and Carbon Fork £1200 ish with two colour paint
    Tomassini Tecno Columbus Memo Nivacrom Frame and Fork £1450 with custom paint and polished stays/fork etc
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    solboy10 wrote:
    Just a quick update as I had a fairly productive day today. Managed to speak to a few well know builders today and it has become clear that the likes of Roberts, Feather, Tom Donhou are either out of my price range or have really long lead in times (or both) so the shortlist is getting shorter.

    This leaves Enigma, Rourke and having contacted the manufacturer the Tomassini is still potentially viable.

    So out of these three what do you reckon???

    Enigma Elite HSS Spirit Frame and Carbon Fork £1500ish with two colour paint
    Rourke 853 Frame and Carbon Fork £1200 ish with two colour paint
    Tomassini Tecno Columbus Memo Nivacrom Frame and Fork £1450 with custom paint and polished stays/fork etc

    The one you like best?

    A Tommasini is a timeless classic... it will always look and ride great... while the Enigma looks very bland although it might ride great... it looks pretty much like a Genesis Equilibrium, rather than something artisan made.
    That leaves the Rourke... I have seen a few nice ones around... but really, don't get those sloping tubed frames... they are much of a muchness these days
    left the forum March 2023
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    Turns out the Tecno is 100% made to measure but I have to pay quite a lot of dosh for the fitting. Still time to mull things over as I don't have time to visit the remaining builders/dealers until the end of the month. That Tommasini is class I have to say.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    solboy10 wrote:
    Turns out the Tecno is 100% made to measure but I have to pay quite a lot of dosh for the fitting. Still time to mull things over as I don't have time to visit the remaining builders/dealers until the end of the month. That Tommasini is class I have to say.

    Agree, that design has been around for years and the Prestige even longer... they are classy frames, that stand the test of time, like a Colnago Master... people admire them now like they did back then... those sloping frames look dreadful now and in 5 years will look pathetic... as a frame for life no doubt where my money would go... as a frame for racing it might be a different story
    left the forum March 2023
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    . while the Enigma looks very bland although it might ride great... it looks pretty much like a Genesis Equilibrium, rather than something artisan made.
    Oi, my Enigma doesn't look bland! Just get it painted a wacky colour and you'll be fine.. :wink:

    viewtopic.php?t=12936130&p=18482865

    (apologies to ugo for the sloping top tube, call me a heretic but I just prefer them that way...)
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    neeb wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    . while the Enigma looks very bland although it might ride great... it looks pretty much like a Genesis Equilibrium, rather than something artisan made.
    Oi, my Enigma doesn't look bland! Just get it painted a wacky colour and you'll be fine.. :wink:

    viewtopic.php?t=12936130&p=18482865

    (apologies to ugo for the sloping top tube, call me a heretic but I just prefer them that way...)

    Your slope is acceptable.. I call those semi-sloping .. the paint is nice
    left the forum March 2023
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    ugo.santalucia wrote:

    Your slope is acceptable.. I call those semi-sloping .. the paint is nice
    I'm completely with you on the angle of the slope being critical - mine's 5 degrees, which I specified. Enigma tend to go for 8 degrees as standard, which is bordering on unacceptable for me.
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    You can order a Tecno with normal geo direct from the factory...
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  • on-yer-bike
    on-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    I though Enigmas were made in the far East if that matters. Have you looked at the Condor Super Accacio?
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
    Cervelo
    Campagnolo
  • bmxboy10
    bmxboy10 Posts: 1,958
    NapoleonD wrote:
    You can order a Tecno with normal geo direct from the factory...

    Nap I would be interested to know where you are getting your info from? I had an email from Barbara at Tommasini Italy today and she only answered half my questions. The London dealer was really helpful but I am struggling to justify £200 for a measure. What do you mean by "normal" geo?
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    on-yer-bike wrote:
    I though Enigmas were made in the far East if that matters. Have you looked at the Condor Super Accacio?
    They used to have some of their titanium frames made to order in the far east, but I think all of their frames (certainly the custom ones) are now made in the U.K. Mine was welded by Joe Walker with Mark Reilly doing the braze-ons.
  • meagain
    meagain Posts: 2,331
    While perhaps not as many as some on here, I have owned/ridden many (certainly over 50) bikes. Steel (853, 531, 531C, Tange Prestige, Columbus SLX (my favourite)), Ti, alu and carbon. Having just acquired my first full carbon (PX) for some years, I've remembered why it's the best material for bicycle frames. Oh and sloping tops for me any day. Why have MORE frame than one needs?

    And apart from the vanity thing (I hasten to add that this is an entirely acceptable motive), I can see no need for custom unless - as others have said - one is an unusual shape.

    IF one wants a frame for life (not I) then surely Ti is the only way.
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    meagain wrote:
    IF one wants a frame for life (not I) then surely Ti is the only way.
    Or stainless steel...

    I do agree that carbon is the best material overall for bikes, but I can honestly say that my XCR Enigma rides like a very classy carbon bike. The only penalty is about 600g extra weight. With oversized tubes steel can be very stiff and responsive. Ti, even if it's oversized and profiled, usually seems to have a slight springy/flexiness under power (not necessarily a bad thing depending on the type of riding you are doing).

    Of course just because I have one frame for life doesn't mean I can't replace the other ones on a regular basis.. :)
  • hopak
    hopak Posts: 193
    I thought I was finished and then Brian Rourke appeared and nursed me up the last three corners of Alpe d'Huez.
    He is a hero.
    If I wanted a steel frame I would go to him.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    neeb wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    . while the Enigma looks very bland although it might ride great... it looks pretty much like a Genesis Equilibrium, rather than something artisan made.
    Oi, my Enigma doesn't look bland! Just get it painted a wacky colour and you'll be fine.. :wink:

    viewtopic.php?t=12936130&p=18482865

    (apologies to ugo for the sloping top tube, call me a heretic but I just prefer them that way...)

    Your slope is acceptable.. I call those semi-sloping

    That's like the old answer to an exam question to describe a graph "The answer is that it is a straight line with a slight curve" :wink:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    solboy10 wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    You can order a Tecno with normal geo direct from the factory...

    Nap I would be interested to know where you are getting your info from? I had an email from Barbara at Tommasini Italy today and she only answered half my questions. The London dealer was really helpful but I am struggling to justify £200 for a measure. What do you mean by "normal" geo?

    The sizes listed on the website
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    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    I find a bit ludicrous that people keep considering titanium as the frame for life. First thing... any titanium produced in a supernova explosion and landed in this solar system is in the form of titanium oxide, or rutile mineral to you and me... you won't find any titanium nugget... so it does react with oxygen, although slower than other metals. Secondly, very rarely frames die because of oxidation, more likely they get sold for a new "frame for life" three years later because the new can take the latest innovation in electronic levers and hydraulic brakes or they get crashed or some even end up with a crack. Titanium is not immune to any of the above.

    Finally, I have a Columbus SL frame in what I would call showroom conditions after a recent respray... it's 33 years old, it's not made of titanium, it seems to be doing pretty well

    A frame for life is a state of mind, if you don't have it in you, it will end up being sold because the components are "obsolete" and the newer ones don't fit
    left the forum March 2023
  • jordan_217
    jordan_217 Posts: 2,580
    neeb wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    . while the Enigma looks very bland although it might ride great... it looks pretty much like a Genesis Equilibrium, rather than something artisan made.
    Oi, my Enigma doesn't look bland! Just get it painted a wacky colour and you'll be fine.. :wink:

    viewtopic.php?t=12936130&p=18482865

    (apologies to ugo for the sloping top tube, call me a heretic but I just prefer them that way...)

    Sweet Lord that is a handsome bike :shock: . The nicest Enigma I've ever seen. I won't show my Echo the thread as it will get steel envy.

    I was going to get a custom steel for my 40th - 7 years away. Must be strong!
    “Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”

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