Wheel lifespan.

einriba
einriba Posts: 319
edited March 2014 in Workshop
ok, bit of a generic question I suppose, but how many miles does an average set of wheels last? I assume (barring crashes etc) the braking surface only has so many miles.

I took off my open 4 SUP's today that I built in 1998 (the hubs are shimano 600! Ultegra these days). I reckon I've done 4,000 miles on them, if that. Double butted swiss spokes....bearings are ok, not great.

The braking surface looks good. Not much concave to it......just wondering if I'm right to replace them with some cheap crap for the winter bike, and if these have still got some mileage in them yet.
Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning

Comments

  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    I go by the idea that, if I am on my winter bike, I am using harder heavier tyres to withstand punctures and grip in the wet, therefore I aint going to be going at any great speed, so I just use any old cheap wheel and save my best in case I did damage them somehow. If you still put the effort in, you still get the same training benefit.
  • majormantra
    majormantra Posts: 2,094
    You might as well use them. Have you serviced the hubs? If they aren't pitted internally they will be improved by flushing and re-greasing, and possibly replacing the balls. If they've never been serviced it's probably too late to return them to their original glory, although they'll be perfectly usable.

    Wheel lifespan is incredibly variable. People who insist on only using their rear brake get through a lot more rims than people who brake properly, and rider weight and frequency of cleaning make a big difference too.
  • robbo2011
    robbo2011 Posts: 1,017
    don't forget the type of pads used too. a cheap, hard compound used for winter riding can grind through a set of rims in just one season.
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    THe hubs are useable. They're just not smooth anymore - i've regularly serviced them and regreased them.

    The wheels were originally bought as racing wheels, then I gave up while at uni. Never really got back in to it just plodded out a few miles here and there, then they became winter wheels - and I hate riding in the winter so they haven't seen much action at all!

    I was taking them off as I thought 15 years is pretty old for wheels....I'm worried about the braking surface being so thin it'll give way. But visually they seem fine.

    Is there a minimum thickness the walls should be? and how the hell do you measure them?
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    General consensus seems to be 1mm minimum for safety and measure with callipers - tis has been discussed a few times so search is your friend. I got a link from here to mechanical dental callipers which have the advantage of not needing any spokes or extra wire to measure wall thickness below the bead rim.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DENTAL-METAL- ... 0562571634
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    ah yes sorry.....just the conversation was going and went in that direction. I'll do a search.

    Thanks for that link. Very usefl piece of kit!
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    4000 miles is nothing. Ultegra hubs should last alot longer. Change the cones and put grade 25 or grade 10 ball in nothing inferior. Use wheels manufacturing cones for the 600 hub. Rim wear might be an issue it might not it will depend on the pads you have used.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    I've got a friend measuring the brake wall thickness today with a micrometer?

    Hopefully they're more than 1mm thick!
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    Miles is irrelevant to brake surface wear.

    The amount of braking, pad material and weather conditons are all variable and therefore un quantifiable.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    measured with vernier calipers in a couple of random places:

    back: 1.75, 1.7
    front: 1.8, 1.2

    So a while left on the rims! bit concerning that the front has uneven wear......but they should last another winter at least!!!
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    Seems odd to have such variance in rim wear, are you sure the measurements are reliable?
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    wishitwasallflat wrote:
    Seems odd to have such variance in rim wear, are you sure the measurements are reliable?

    yeah the guy that measured them is a very good carpenter. I thought that the reading on the front wheel was odd....
    I'd like to think the 1.3 is the wrong reading as the rest of the readings are 1.7 / 1.8..........which means they're just over half way throgh their life!!! still got 0.8 to go.....
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    When I have measured new OP rims they have not had a 1.8mm brake track. they have been thinner. Something is a miss.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    When I have measured new OP rims they have not had a 1.8mm brake track. they have been thinner. Something is a miss.


    hmmm, ok. I think I'll buy myself a set of those measuring calipers to be on the safe side....but I do trust my friend that measured them.
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    seems my mates calipers need recalibrating!

    Got the measuring tool as suggested above and measured the front myself - they're at about 1.2 / 1.3 mm....
    Biggest concern is that the wall is no longer flat, it's starting to curve. Not massively, but it's on its way.

    Is this now a case of "better to be safe than sorry"?....I have a 2nd set of winter wheels in the garage, they're just not anywhere as nice
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • andrew_s
    andrew_s Posts: 2,511
    einriba wrote:
    seems my mates calipers need recalibrating!
    They probably were't reaching underneath the bead hook properly.

    This is what a rim looks like when it's starting to give under the strain. The left side is bending, the right side is still OK, but has some concavity due to wear. This was detected by the feel of the rim.
    T217_c_zpsa44c8854.jpg

    You can pressure test a rim by inflating the tyre up to 160psi or so. If the overall width remains the same and it doesn't go bang, it's probably OK for a while. If the rim is too worn, it will bend out further and the tyre will come off, costing you a tube and rattling your eardrums.
    T217_b_zpsd8dbbcc7.jpg

    If you leave it too long, it will fail out on the road.
    If you are lucky you'll notice it before the crack in the rim has spread far enough to do more than make a bulge that knocks on the brakes, giving you the chance to reduce the tyre pressure and head direct for home. If you are unlucky, the tyre will go bang on a steep downhill at high speed, and it will hurt.
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    ok, thank you for the pics. The rims I have aren't as bad as the one above, but neverthless, I'd rather not risk it until it's too late - they're on the way....that's enough for me
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • term1te
    term1te Posts: 1,462
    I built up a set of wheels in the late 90s Shimano 600 on Open Pro, I changed the rims two years back, one broke spectacularly. With new OP rims they are still going strong. I service the hubs most years in the spring and run as good as new. Must have put 30,000+ miles on them over the years.

    Do be careful with excess rim wear. I pumped the tyres up one very cold morning, cycled to work and left the bike in the sun. At some point during the day the increase in temperature and therefore pressure caused a section of rim about 4 inches long to be blown off, it split on the line of the break wear with the top section separating and displacing about 1/4 inch whilst still held at the ends by the rim bead. I was very glad I wasn't on the bike at the time. I was very careful with the hubs, never looked at the rims, I'm a bit paranoid about them now.
    The Master
    The Moser
    The VN
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    einriba wrote:
    seems my mates calipers need recalibrating!

    Got the measuring tool as suggested above and measured the front myself - they're at about
    einriba wrote:
    1.2 / 1.3 mm....
    1.2 / 1.3 mm....Biggest concern is that the wall is no longer flat, it's starting to curve. Not massively, but it's on its way.

    Is this now a case of "better to be safe than sorry"?....I have a 2nd set of winter wheels in the garage, they're just not anywhere as nice
    einriba wrote:
    ok, thank you for the pics. The rims I have aren't as bad as the one above, but neverthless, I'd rather not risk it until it's too late - they're on the way....that's enough for me

    You will certainly be safe if you replace rims at 1.2-.3mm thickness but cycling will be an expensive hobby for you involving lots of new wheels -

    viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12916595&hilit=Open+Pro+rims

    maybe your rich enough though to be able to be cautious like this (are you VTech in disguise perhaps :D )
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    I've been cycling for 24 years now! It's always an expensive hobby.

    Interesting to see that there's an opinion about <1mm replace them, 0.7 is critical.

    Hmmmm perhaps there's a couple more winters in them yet :?

    .........and who or what is VTech?
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    einriba wrote:
    I've been cycling for 24 years now! It's always an expensive hobby.

    Interesting to see that there's an opinion about <1mm replace them, 0.7 is critical.

    Hmmmm perhaps there's a couple more winters in them yet :?

    .........and who or what is VTech?

    VTech is a hilarious forum member who claims to not care who knows he is very very wealthy but strangely nearly every post refers to it - he was prolific a few months back but hasn't been around for a while. I think he works in connection with F1 motorsport so maybe that's why. I reckon his old post are worth tracking down as some of them are fall of your chair funny.

    I would hate to sway you about the rim thickness issue as I would feel shit if something went wrong but I thought I would post that link to my previous questions about it so you can mull it over for yourself. As you can see several well respected forum members who give reliable good advice frequently posted agreeing the 1mm limit. My Open Pro rims are still above that and I'm still riding them - they do look a bit concave when a ruler is placed beside them but I think I am going to persevere till they are 1mm. Which reminds me:

    1) must measure them again soon and
    2) I'm never buying rims that don't have a wear indicator ever again :!:
  • burrows_je
    burrows_je Posts: 5
    I liked seeing the photos of rim wear on this post... I've been looking for advice on how to assess rim wear.

    Seeing if the rim flexes and explodes at up to 160psi seems a bit OTT to me so maybe I'll buy a set of those calipers and whip the tyre off. I think there should be some sort of wear indicator on my R500 wheels but I can't see it and I've done about 6000miles with a fair amount of dirty/wet commuting without that much cleaning of the bike, poor thing! I think this year will get expensive on maintenance and new bits!
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    burrows_je wrote:
    I think there should be some sort of wear indicator on my R500 wheels but I can't see it

    I'm sure I remember reading that Shimano Rims have a little depression dot on the rim as a wear indicator - once the rim wears down to the limit it reaches the bottom of the dot and so the dot disappears.
    On the service instructions for the Shimano WH-R500 it says

    The hollow on the opposite side to the valve hole is an indicator for the amount of
    rim wear. If this hollow can no longer be seen, stop using the rim.
    If you continue using the rim, it may break, and the bicycle may fall over and an
    accident may result.
  • Moonbiker
    Moonbiker Posts: 1,706
    I bought some r501 recently and & they have the wear dot on them.

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