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Doored..

Larry the LurkerLarry the Lurker Posts: 2
edited September 2013 in Commuting general
Firstly, I am a long time lurker first time poster
Hello :D
. However having an RTA has warranted my post for advice :oops:
I am just seeking clarification as to who is at fault.

I was in a cycle lane moving through stop start traffic when I got doored by the passenger side door of a car in the flow of traffic.... the car had stopped in the traffic flow and the passenger opened the car door directly into the cycle lane giving me no time to react.

Bike is a write off and after visiting the hospital it appears I have got lucky with some severe bruising, swelling and a whiplash type injury to my neck.

I am sure I have done nothing wrong, but i was just looking for clarification.
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Posts

  • rubertoerubertoe Posts: 3,994
    It doesn't appear that you have done anything wrong,

    if your in a cycle lane then it is the passengers fault as you had a legitimate reason to be undertaking.

    Make sure that you have all the details of the witnesses, but i have no idea if you can claim through the drivers insurance.
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    It's an offence to open a car door and cause an accident. The passenger should have checked their mirror before opening the door. This is regardless of the presence of the cycle lane.

    Unfortunately the police Rarely choose to make use of it.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • Mr.DuckMr.Duck Posts: 174
    Exactly why I don't cycle in the door zone or undertake people. Seriously, I've never seen any other cyclist move over to the right to overtake cars. I almost never even see car drivers overtaking anyone, prefering to tailgate instead...
  • asprilla wrote:
    It's an offence to open a car door and cause an accident. The passenger should have checked their mirror before opening the door. This is regardless of the presence of the cycle lane.

    Unfortunately the police Rarely choose to make use of it.
    So is choosing which red lights to 'jump' but then you consider it ok to pick and choose the laws you obey. :roll:
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    shortcuts wrote:
    asprilla wrote:
    It's an offence to open a car door and cause an accident. The passenger should have checked their mirror before opening the door. This is regardless of the presence of the cycle lane.

    Unfortunately the police Rarely choose to make use of it.
    So is choosing which red lights to 'jump' but then you consider it ok to pick and choose the laws you obey. :roll:

    WTF? Are you sure you've got the right person?

    If you are accusing me of jumping red lights then I think you need to brush up on your comprehension skills or you've taken a facetious comment the wrong way.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • Larry, you are not at fault here. The other party has commited an offence, albeit a minor one so it's unlikely the Police will sort it for you (depending on where you live).

    If you have their details the first thing I would do is send the driver a bill for your bike repair and injuries (get a quote for your bike and whatever you think for your injuries). If you have no joy with that, find one of those cycling specialist solicitors in the back of the monthly mags and see if they will pursue it for you.
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    Larry, you are not at fault here. The other party has commited an offence, albeit a minor one so it's unlikely the Police will sort it for you (depending on where you live).

    If you have their details the first thing I would do is send the driver a bill for your bike repair and injuries (get a quote for your bike and whatever you think for your injuries). If you have no joy with that, find one of those cycling specialist solicitors in the back of the monthly mags and see if they will pursue it for you.

    What qualifies it as minor? (This isn't an aggressive line of questioning, just curious). I've got mates who have been left with facial fractures, broken collarbones, broken ribs, etc. It can cause very serious injury, so what's the scale of seriousness?
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • Asprilla, All depends where you live and which Police force covers your area. There's no hard and fast rules. It all comes down to how easy or hard it is to solve and how much effort would be required to solve it.

    I used to work in the Met. The vast majority of crime there is screened out. In that there is no further enquiry. The bottom line is there are not enough Cops to investigate it. Yes the Met has lots of Cops but very few of them are there to respond to and investigate crime.

    At the other end of the spectrum, up here in the highlands 100% of crime is screened in and all possible attempts are made to solve it.

    If Franks accident happened here it would be treated as a recordable accident and the person responsible charged. If it happened in the Met or other big city he'd get some advice over the phone from a civie call handler.
  • If you report it to the police would they not be obliged to give you a crime reference number? I'm assuming you have the registration number and details of the driver & passenger.

    You should then contact the cycling organisation you are a member of which gives you third party liability insurance and legal cover (BC or CTC). They then build a case and write to the drivers insurer detailing your claim. Should be straight forward.
  • asprilla wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    asprilla wrote:
    It's an offence to open a car door and cause an accident. The passenger should have checked their mirror before opening the door. This is regardless of the presence of the cycle lane.

    Unfortunately the police Rarely choose to make use of it.
    So is choosing which red lights to 'jump' but then you consider it ok to pick and choose the laws you obey. :roll:

    WTF? Are you sure you've got the right person?

    If you are accusing me of jumping red lights then I think you need to brush up on your comprehension skills or you've taken a facetious comment the wrong way.
    Please accept my unreserved apology. I have the wrong person. My need to rant has clouded my concentration and found me picking on completely the wrong individual. :oops:
  • Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?


    The cars insurers have to cover the compensation if the passenger does not
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?
    The offence is, like seatbelt wearing, committed by the individual.
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    shortcuts wrote:
    Please accept my unreserved apology. I have the wrong person. My need to rant has clouded my concentration and found me picking on completely the wrong individual. :oops:

    No probs, there are a lot of quite strings on the RLJ thread so it's pretty easy to attach the wrong name to a quote.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,494
    shortcuts wrote:
    Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?
    The offence is, like seatbelt wearing, committed by the individual.

    But isn't the driver responsible for the action of those in the car?
  • slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?
    The offence is, like seatbelt wearing, committed by the individual.

    But isn't the driver responsible for the action of those in the car?
    No. Not to the extent of catching the can for his careless opening of a car door.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,494
    shortcuts wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?
    The offence is, like seatbelt wearing, committed by the individual.

    But isn't the driver responsible for the action of those in the car?
    No. Not to the extent of catching the can for his careless opening of a car door.
    Surprises me if that's true - Drivers are responsible for their passengers wearing seatbelts ... so opening doors isn't so far away....
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?
    The offence is, like seatbelt wearing, committed by the individual.

    But isn't the driver responsible for the action of those in the car?
    No. Not to the extent of catching the can for his careless opening of a car door.
    Surprises me if that's true - Drivers are responsible for their passengers wearing seatbelts ... so opening doors isn't so far away....

    Drivers are only responsible for their passengers wearing seat belts if the passenger is below 16, aren't they?
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • asprilla wrote:
    Drivers are only responsible for their passengers wearing seat belts if the passenger is below 16, aren't they?
    Keep the air-con at a suitable temperature, then!
  • Have you had an accident that wasn't your fault!?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-DcYZZQlJw
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    tootsie323 wrote:
    asprilla wrote:
    Drivers are only responsible for their passengers wearing seat belts if the passenger is below 16, aren't they?
    Keep the air-con at a suitable temperature, then!

    I was wrong. It's not 16, it's 14. And it's Kelvin. Looks like I need new air-con.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?
    The offence is, like seatbelt wearing, committed by the individual.

    But isn't the driver responsible for the action of those in the car?
    No. Not to the extent of catching the can for his careless opening of a car door.
    Surprises me if that's true - Drivers are responsible for their passengers wearing seatbelts ... so opening doors isn't so far away....
    Be surprised then :lol: Wrong :roll:
  • Cycle lanes are so dangerous for many reasons, this highlights one of those many reasons.

    If you use them and you are undertaking stopped cars, be wary, be very wary.... You may end up waking up in hospital, or worse, not waking up.

    I would say it was just an accident that happened to happen; the guy opening the door is as much to blame as you are for riding up the inside of the car.... When was the last time (as a passenger) you checked around for undertaking cyclists before opening a car door?

    Now the next time you are busy filtering up the inside of traffic in the "protected" cycle lane you'll be a bit more careful ;)
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,494
    shortcuts wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?
    The offence is, like seatbelt wearing, committed by the individual.

    But isn't the driver responsible for the action of those in the car?
    No. Not to the extent of catching the can for his careless opening of a car door.
    Surprises me if that's true - Drivers are responsible for their passengers wearing seatbelts ... so opening doors isn't so far away....
    Be surprised then :lol: Wrong :roll:

    Oh well - I must've pissed off a director that asked for a lift only to be told to fit his seat belt - cos I thought it was my responsibility to ensure all passengers were correctly belted. :D
  • slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    shortcuts wrote:
    Just as a point of interest, since it was caused by the passenger, is it the driver or the passenger responsible and if the passenger, how do you go about pursuing them?
    The offence is, like seatbelt wearing, committed by the individual.

    But isn't the driver responsible for the action of those in the car?
    No. Not to the extent of catching the can for his careless opening of a car door.
    Surprises me if that's true - Drivers are responsible for their passengers wearing seatbelts ... so opening doors isn't so far away....
    Be surprised then :lol: Wrong :roll:

    Oh well - I must've pissed off a director that asked for a lift only to be told to fit his seat belt - cos I thought it was my responsibility to ensure all passengers were correctly belted. :D
    I dare say you have a 'duty of care' to ask but if he fails to do so, say by wrapping it around himself whereby you assume he has secured it the offence in law rests with him. It is a personal responsibility.
    As to the door offence:
    Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
    Regulation 105,
    "No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a
    vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person."
    So again it is an offence for which the person opening the door is responsible.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,494
    shortcuts wrote:
    I dare say you have a 'duty of care' to ask but if he fails to do so, say by wrapping it around himself whereby you assume he has secured it the offence in law rests with him. It is a personal responsibility.
    Well - as the car beeps until you actually fasten the seatbelt properly I wasn't going any further until he clicked it in! Front seat so it is a requirement.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    Re who is "responsible" for dooring in law.

    The position is slightly different in civi land criminal law.

    In criminal law, the responsibility is with the person opening the door into the cyclist (assuming cyclisst not to blame re manner of riding etc....)

    Civil liability is also with person opening door, but any judgement could be enforced against car's insurance company
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • andyh01andyh01 Posts: 570
    working in motor insurance and siting a diploma in insurance my understanding re who's at fault passenger or driver, whilst the passenger was technically at fault, owes a duty of care, failed in that duty and caused damage to TP, as it occurrmd on the road it'll fall under the road traffic act, in short motor policies will cater for this eventuallity and case law has set precedent. At worse case there could be an argument for contributory negligence for filtering on the inside which could reduce any award by circa 25%
  • Obviously the answer is to get proper legal advice/representation, but IMO the liability rests entirely with the car passenger as you are permitted to overtake slow moving or stationary traffic on the left in the UK, as well as the above RVR re not opening door so as to cause injury. This is not 'filtering on the inside' as the OP was in a separate marked lane and the car was stationary.

    OTOH for self preservation cyclists should be extremely wary of passing stationary vehicles within the door zone on either side for this very reason, it is all very well being in the right, but it is really not worth the risk of severe injuries or death (quite possible and happens every year from this accident).
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