Shimano wheels...Rs v dura ace c24

polska1979

Hi all

Been looking at upgrading wheels and have come across some real bargains on ribble for Shimano RS wheels

I'd initially been looking at dura ace c24 (aspiring) but also at ultegra 6700. I need a wheel that is going to be a good all rounder hills, sportive s and crits

Where does the RS range of wheels sit in the range? And what's the difference between RS and Da/ultegra..?

I'd been tempted by RS 81 c24 for 400 quid.?

Anyone any experience with these wheels?

Grill

Hubs mainly. If you go handbuilt you can get super smooth DA hubs that will last you a lifetime as opposed to 7k miles on the factory ones as you'll wear the rim and you can't reuse the hubs.

polska1979

So the RS are not hand built but the DA are?

Grill

No, I'm saying you should buy DA hubs and take them to a wheel builder along with the appropriate rims. Both sets of C24 wheels (RS and DA) are factory wheels (obvs assembled by hand). Being factory wheels you can reuse any of the components which is a crying shame.

polska1979

Ah right!

How come you couldn't reuse the factory hubs?

Grill

It is possible to reuse them, but you're severely limited in your choice of rim due to the drilling. Shimano replacement rims are stupid expensive and realistically the low spoke count won't be in your favour for flex and durability.

philbar72

take for example my c 50's. 21 rear spokes.

21

Mental.

DarrenGTi

I'd just like to add something to the arguement. WHY DOES EVERYONE RECOMMEND HANDBUILTS?? A low spoke count isn't the end of the world. Everyone told me to go handbuilt because being a powerful 85kg rider I'd get severe flex. No such issues with the 21 spokes on the Fulcrum Racing Zeros I bought. And yes, parts can be replaced, my wheels came with the spoke key and guide required for doing so. I have absolutely nothing against handbuilt wheels but they are not the only option. Buy what makes you happy.

Grill

Because for the money you can almost always do better with handbuilts and aren't reliant on the manufacturer for spares (Fulcrum, like Mavic, is a PIA for spares and expensive to boot).

ugo.santalucia

DarrenGTi wrote:

I'd just like to add something to the arguement. WHY DOES EVERYONE RECOMMEND HANDBUILTS?? A low spoke count isn't the end of the world. Everyone told me to go handbuilt because being a powerful 85kg rider I'd get severe flex. No such issues with the 21 spokes on the Fulcrum Racing Zeros I bought. And yes, parts can be replaced, my wheels came with the spoke key and guide required for doing so. I have absolutely nothing against handbuilt wheels but they are not the only option. Buy what makes you happy.

You are right, thanks mainly to myself and a couple of others there is a strong bias towards hand built wheels. There is also a large number of other users who recommend Mavic, Fulcrum, Planet X, Zipp, Reynolds and lately a lot of Zondas, so the argument is not totally unbalanced.

And yes, you are right, parts can be replaced with Fulcrum, when I-Ride have them available but beside the odd broken spoke, are you aware of anybody who had a full wheelset rebuilt?
On top of my head 2 rims are roughly 300 pounds and if you also need the spokes, then between those and labor, you are looking at a total which is not far from 500 pounds... which give or take is the price of a new set of 1 or Zero at the end of the season when they stick the new labels on.
The same operation in an average set of hand built wheels costs less than 200 pounds and if they are 28 or 32, chances are the spokes don't need replacing as they can do 2-3 sets of rims before being fatigued, which cuts the cost even lover to 120-150

smidsy

DarrenGTi wrote:

I'd just like to add something to the arguement. WHY DOES EVERYONE RECOMMEND HANDBUILTS??.

Not EVERYONE,but those who have had experience of both will tend to favour them.

I guess it is a bit like the sort of recommendations you may get if you went on a clothing forum and asked about a new suit. Sure you can get an off the peg item but you can also go somewhere and get one made to measure by a reputable tailor. The latter will always be a far superior product and will have been crafted to your specifics of weight, use and style from a wide choice of available components.

Just a thought like.

polska1979

Ok, but to take the suit argument..could you realistically get a pair of wheels hand built that are as good as a pair of £500 mavic, shimano, fulcrum factory builds.?

You certainly couldn't get a bespoke suit for less than 200 could you ;-)

smidsy

polska1979 wrote:

Ok, but to take the suit argument..could you realistically get a pair of wheels hand built that are as good as a pair of £500 mavic, shimano, fulcrum factory builds.?

Absolutely you can, better than, in fact.

polska1979

Fire some names at me :-)

Grill

DA 9000 hubs - £304
H Plus SonArchetype - £100
This leaves £100 for spokes and assembly which is plenty.

And yes, you can easily get hand builts under £200.

smidsy

And if you go Hope Pro 3 hubs you can have even more change.

adamfo

smidsy wrote:

And if you go Hope Pro 3 hubs you can have even more change.

and a chewed-up free hub body if the user reviews are to be believed ?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/hope-pro3-mono-road-rear-hub/

adamfo

The German magazine Road Bike include a couple of hand builds in their large group test which do well.
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... 3Fskip%3D1

The Zonda wheels looks strong in all areas. Lateral stiffness over 100 Nm
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... latt.9.htm


Interesting video of the Campag/Fulcrum factory here (warning crass American commentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIGm7pKx3rs

ugo.santalucia

adamfo wrote:

smidsy wrote:

And if you go Hope Pro 3 hubs you can have even more change.

and a chewed-up free hub body if the user reviews are to be believed ?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/hope-pro3-mono-road-rear-hub/

ALL the alloy freehubs are subject to that. In fact I have serviced a guy's wheel and he managed to chew even a steel freehub, which was the first time I have seen it. I have soft alloy freehubs, but I don't seem to chew them, mainly because I don't race or accelerate very hard, I guess.
It's very much the pedaling style... some do chew freehubs, some don't. Hope are not the softest out there

smidsy

adamfo wrote:

smidsy wrote:

And if you go Hope Pro 3 hubs you can have even more change.

and a chewed-up free hub body if the user reviews are to be believed ?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/hope-pro3-mono-road-rear-hub/

Do you have some?

I do and they are very well made and run as smooth as silk. The freehub body is alloy and the cassettes are steel so you will always get some wear on the softer metal. The Hopes are no worse than any other brand I have had in that respect and significantly better in all other areas.

No biggie and you can easily get replacement freeehubs (in about 15,000 miles)

Grill

Most cassettes contribute to the chewing of hubs as the tolerances can be fairly slack. DA cassettes have much tighter tolerances than the rest of the Shimano line-up...

kikonameko

Im still curious to know the answer to the question of the original poster. From my side of the woods, there arent a lot of skilled custom wheel builders. I can only rely on factory wheels. is it worth it to get the Dura Ace c24 vs the RS81 c24 or even the RS81 c35? asking google gives me a lot of results for the DA c35.. but i think Shimano marketing just wants to push that product more than the RS series.

what does everyone think? everything i read online who owns the DA wheels swears by it. are the hubs from the RS really differ so much from the DA hubs?

buckles

If you look at the Dura ace hubs you'll see they have a fat aluminium axle, 'digital click' adjustment rather than the normal locknut system, and a titanium freehub body.

bikingjohn

How about recommendation of hand built high profile (e.g. 50mm) wheels?

ugo.santalucia

bikingjohn wrote:

How about recommendation of hand built high profile (e.g. 50mm) wheels?

They can only be carbon. For budget wheels, Wheelsmith has a wide range of Gigantex rims on offer. Otherwise you are looking at Chinese imports or Planet X ones. Farsport ones seem to be decent, for what I have seen.
For clinchers BLB has a range of rims that can be assembled, named Notorious, which are nicely built, but have unknown braking credentials.
If you have the budget, Wheelbuilder.com in the USA have access to ZIpp firecrest rims in all drillings, as they are certified Zipp builders (whatever that means) and they can build them for you on any hub you like (DT Swiss, CK etc... ) that is probably the best carbon wheelset money can buy... looking at 1,500 GBP or so.
Finally HED Stinger and Enve have a factory name, but they are 100% hand built and use J spokes (at least at the rear, where it matters)

pkripper

Will they? I've used handbuilts built by very well regarded wheelbuilders, and a few sets of factory built wheels.

I pretty much exclusively run factory wheels now apart from my powertap. They are great bang-for-the-buck wheels, both performance wise and visually, and I'm not in the habit of wrecking wheels in crashes / potholes, I'm well within the weight limit of most if not all, and my bike is generally kept pretty clean and well maintained so not subject to constant grinding paste. Oh, and I've done the whole cost / benefit thing over my perceived lifetime of a wheelset for both types.

So, I'd suggest something different - generally those that have tried both are aware of the pros and cons of both and are probably more likely to have an informed opinion of what they're looking for in a wheel and which set is most likely to meet that.

And the equally valid suggestion on the tailoring example is that off the peg suits are available as they meet the requirements of a majority of people, and for a significant proportion of that population will fit pretty much as well as a bespoke suit.

smidsy wrote:

DarrenGTi wrote:

I'd just like to add something to the arguement. WHY DOES EVERYONE RECOMMEND HANDBUILTS??.

Not EVERYONE,but those who have had experience of both will tend to favour them.

I guess it is a bit like the sort of recommendations you may get if you went on a clothing forum and asked about a new suit. Sure you can get an off the peg item but you can also go somewhere and get one made to measure by a reputable tailor. The latter will always be a far superior product and will have been crafted to your specifics of weight, use and style from a wide choice of available components.

Just a thought like.

ben16v

i always want to upgrade my wheels long before i`ve worn them out

kikonameko

the price difference for the RS and the DA c24s are huge. I guess i need to feel the DA hubs myself to make the call. Just reading about it just doesnt compute, same rims same spokes different hubs and more than double the price...