Disk or Canti?

max888

I was wondering what system people are on. I'm on disks this coming season (TRP HyRd) as I think that's where it'll all be heading.

What are you lot riding? Going to switch?

Paul 8v

I'm on cantis but only because of costs. After going from V's/Cantis to discs on a mtb there is no way I would ever go back. If my cross bike wasn't my 3rd bike I would whack some hydraulic hopes on there in a heartbeat! So much more modulation and don't get cacked up so they actually work in the mud

simonj

Had cable discs before and didnt like them too much, am on trp cx 8.4 v's for now, would be tempted to go hydraulic discs, but for the time will wait and see if price comes down and haven't looked into weight. I do like the idea of not wearing your rims out though!!

jordan_217

I wish I'd gone down the disk route when I made some upgrades on my Kona Jake. I've just taken delivery of some Tektro 720's from PX (£25 for the set, F&R!). I'm hanging on to the hope that they will be better than the stock Kore ones, which even with Swiss Stop pads, are terrible!

Pross

I opted for cantis just for the ease of swapping the wheels out with my existing road wheels and I'm not sure that cable operated disks would be significantly better.

imposter2.0

I ride the local cross league for a bit of off season fun - probably a max of about 7-8 events a year, at most - the bike just hangs on the wall for the rest of the year. I just don't do enough cross to warrant upgrading - simple as that.

kajjal

Coming from MTB background disc brakes have more stopping power and modulation. Having said that the brakes on my road bike are fine after upgrading to 105's and I now have no concerns over stopping the bike.

DavidBelcher

I've notice a few bikes around running a V front/canti rear set-up. Presumably this reduces the dreaded fork judder (which I've never experienced - maybe I'm just lucky)?

David

imposter2.0

Kajjal wrote:

Coming from MTB background disc brakes have more stopping power and modulation. Having said that the brakes on my road bike are fine after upgrading to 105's and I now have no concerns over stopping the bike.

stopping the bike is not a major issue in cross though..

Pross

DavidBelcher wrote:

I've notice a few bikes around running a V front/canti rear set-up. Presumably this reduces the dreaded fork judder (which I've never experienced - maybe I'm just lucky)?

David

I was just coming on here to ask if fork judder is common with canti brakes - I'm experiencing this quite badly under prolonged (more than a few seconds) braking so I guess the brakes need some adjustment when the bike goes back for its 6 week service.

Monty Dog

There are varies theories for the cause of fork judder with cantis, but the most likely cause is a due to the load from the brake cable on a flexy fork steerer / sloppy headset. Best solution is to fit a fork-crown cable stop or 'uphanger' rather than a tradtional headset hanger. Alternatively, fit a mini-vee brake. I have both cantis and mini-vees on my 2 CX bikes - nether judders. As said earlier, discs don't make a huge difference when CX racing - the biggest factor is tyre choice, grip and the skill of the rider.

veronese68

I believe the judder is caused by the fork flexing slightly having the effect of applying the brakes fractionally. A lower cable stop is supposed to help as Monty Dog says. Well everything Monty Dog said I do believe to be correct.
My previous bike was a Kona Jake with cantis, that didn't suffer from judder at all, before buying I tried a couple of bikes with carbon forks and they seemed to judder. One so badly it was unrideable, I tried the brakes once and rode back to the shop using the back brake only. They tried a couple of things to fix it and it improved but was still there.
I don't think carbon forks are necessarily the problem, possibly forks with too much flex in them are.
I now have a Kinesis Pro6 with discs and am very happy. Much better braking in all conditions, I now have to be careful when braking in the wet as they are so strong. Previously I'd pull the brakes for all I was worth and hope for the best.
This is my every day bike and not a race bike though.
Saying that I should probably have a go, I'm worried that turning up on a flash looking bike expectations might be high and I'd look a bit daft as I show how slow and incompetent I am.

slowbike

Veronese68 wrote:

Saying that I should probably have a go, I'm worried that turning up on a flash looking bike expectations might be high and I'd look a bit daft as I show how slow and incompetent I am.

Far better to turn up on what looks like a pile of cr4p and blow the competition out of the water than turn up on a top of the range bike and struggle to get off the start line ...

Obviously it's easier just to ride your bike when you like and don't go anywhere near any races - that way if anyone does overtake you you can reel out any number of reasons (they're not excuses, you weren't racing).

asprilla

I've got TSP CX8.4s on mine and they are a world away from cantis. Not as good as discs, but pretty close to decent callipers on a road bike.

Can anyone recommend any decent mini-v pads or shoes? I can't work out which Swissstop are compatible because I'm too lazy to research their naming conventions and the Ashima 4 Functions I'd previously been recommended are hard to come by.

veronese68

Slowbike wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Saying that I should probably have a go, I'm worried that turning up on a flash looking bike expectations might be high and I'd look a bit daft as I show how slow and incompetent I am.

Far better to turn up on what looks like a pile of cr4p and blow the competition out of the water than turn up on a top of the range bike and struggle to get off the start line ...

Obviously it's easier just to ride your bike when you like and don't go anywhere near any races - that way if anyone does overtake you you can reel out any number of reasons (they're not excuses, you weren't racing).

Completely agree with you on both points. I did the former a few times with an old car on track days listening to the excuses from flash harrys was great fun. I do the latter most days on my bike, although panting heavily might give the game away.

simonj

Asprilla wrote:

I've got TSP CX8.4s on mine and they are a world away from cantis. Not as good as discs, but pretty close to decent callipers on a road bike.

Can anyone recommend any decent mini-v pads or shoes? I can't work out which Swissstop are compatible because I'm too lazy to research their naming conventions and the Ashima 4 Functions I'd previously been recommended are hard to come by.

I have these with the green swissstop pads, works fine for me, easy to fit, I have allow rims Elites or DA24's.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-flash ... ance-pads/

Pross

On the subject of cantilevers, I'm hoping to swap between my cross wheels and some road wheels as the 38mm tyres and heavy wheels aren't great for my commute. However, I think the cross rims are a few mm wider. How easy is it to adjust the width of cantilever brakes? Is it just a case of tightening / loosening the straddle cable? I'm only going to do a few cross races but might ride a bit of light off road stuff so I'm hoping it will be quite easy to switch (hopefully the flange width of the wheels will be the same so I won't have to worry about the gears which I have to do with my two sets of road wheels!).

max888

Pross, yes shortening the straddle cable will bring the brakes in closer but then the "roll" of the pads will probably be wrong. You'll most likely be braking with the lower edge of the pad only so would have to adjust the angle.

Pross

Didn't need to adjust them in the end, there's marginally more clearance now but they work well. I did find the centring on the rear was out and it looks like the one block had rubbed a lot - might explain why I've been finding it hard going!! :oops:

DavidBelcher

Veronese68 wrote:

I don't think carbon forks are necessarily the problem, possibly forks with too much flex in them are.

Design rather than material is probably the issue - I run a Sintema Muddy carbon fork (with steel steering column) on a TIG-welded steel frame; brakes are cantilever back & front and the latter has the hanger in the traditional place above the headset. No judder though.

David

kentphil

I noticed from pictures that a lot of top flight cyclocross racers are still using canti brakes and don't seem to have switched to disc brakes. Wonder why?

VamP

KentPhil wrote:

I noticed from pictures that a lot of top flight cyclocross racers are still using canti brakes and don't seem to have switched to disc brakes. Wonder why?

Not just top flight. Sunday leagues are 90:10 or more in favour of cantis. Braking has never been a big issue in cross races.

I have no plans to switch to discs. Two bikes and 4 wheelsets. The transition costs alone would be huge, and why? To fix a problem that I don't have.

I am however plotting to convert both to a single ring.

imposter2.0

The ratio of disks to cantis in our cross league last year was probably about 1% or 2% at most. Will be interesting to see what (if any) difference there is this year.

Monty Dog

Expect that Sven Nijs will be running discs this year as he's switched bike sponsor to Trek...but brake type is far less important than things like grip, grip, grip, mud clearances, handling...

proto

About to go and by a new cross bike, and research led me to this old thread. Anything changed in the last twelve months to make discs a 'must have' option? Bike I'm favouring has cantis, Worx CA

http://worxbikes.com/product/ca-force/

Paul 8v

As a disc owner, if you want to do anything other than race, get discs. If you want to slow down in the wet, get discs ;-) If you are a pure racer cantis are fine for most courses

Monty Dog

Sven Nys still not running discs.

proto

Monty Dog wrote:

Sven Nys still not running discs.

Maybe, but is he any good?

mattrixdesign2

Discs are not must haves. You could argue the disadvantages/advantages all day.

For me discs make sense, in that you are not putting wear on rims, and hydraulic types are sealed and pretty much maintenace free, other than the pad changes. Still quite a lot of hydraulic road/cx systems have failed, still early days

The beauty of cantis is wheels can be swapped out with your road wheels etc, and extra wheels are cheap compared to disc types.

Running cantis now (not through choice, limited by budget), would definitely consider discs on my next purchase. I don't compete on a regular basis, may do one or 2 local ones if I get the chance.

I am guessing if the manfuacturers get their way, you won't have the choice on new purchases in a few years time!

tgotb

Monty Dog wrote:

Sven Nys still not running discs.

I always find that argument a bit spurious, because the rest of us aren't Sven. Choice of braking system is going to be a compromise dependent on factors including budget, rider skill and possibly sponsor requirements too. So if you're riding at pro level, with an almost unlimited supply of carbon rims, you probably want to go with cantis (unless you're Lars Van Der Haar, who won the last World Cup on discs). If your bike handling makes you a bit more dependent on reliable braking than Sven, or you're concerned about carbon rim wear, maybe discs are a better option. There again, if you're on aluminium rims or already have a big stack of wheels for cantis, maybe cantis are better. But idly copying pro setups isn't necessarily the best way to select the right equipment for an amateur.

ugo.santalucia

TGOTB wrote:

But idly copying pro setups isn't necessarily the best way to select the right equipment for an amateur.

Besides, I suspect the vast majority of CX bikes sold will never be raced, so the argument for cantis becomes really feeble