front light advice please

kirkee

Hello
does anyone have any buying advice or experience of cree led's front lighting for road riding? I have been looking at buying a 1800 lumens light kit from ebay a chinese made model for less than £20. It seems a good price, are they bright enough? I am not commuting or using everyday, probably use once or twice a week for rides early morning or evenings throughout the winter.

Thanks, and apologies if this subjects been done to death elsewhere.

nochekmate

Twas a recent thread so use Search key for a few pages of discussion on the topic of front lights.

jeannot18

got one and tried it a couple of night ago and it was good enough in unlit country road. Though did not like the flashing setup
JC

kirkee

thanks

unixnerd

Get a pair of Cree XML-T6 or U6 torches. With mine I can ride in total confidence downhill at 30mph in pitch darkness. At least 2 hours on high beam if you get decent batteries (see Torchy the Battery Boy's site). I also run a small head torch for looking at things on the bike or drivers at junctions.

slowbike

Mine arrived yesterday.

Brightness wise it's comparable to the Cateye Nano Shot +
However, the beam spread is not so good - it has a small area of bright light and then a large area of "overspill". Contrasted to the Cateye that gives a wider spread of bright light and the large area of overspill.
I'll try and set up some pictures to compare both.
It may be possible to get/make a better lens - the glass is easily removable so perhaps it's just a matter of getting a more suited lens - aftermarket jobby perhaps?

The Cree has 3 brightness settings opposed to the Cateye 2 and has a flashing mode & sos mode. Unfortunately I cannot see a good (normal) use for the flashing or the sos mode - SOS is self explanatory - it doesn't hurt having it, but I can't see myself needing to use it whilst on my bike. Flashing mode is just far to fast. It would be better to have the every 1/2 or 1/4 second flash.

I'm not sure how it fairs power wise - it doesn't have the green switch that turns orange as the power source reduces like the cateye so I'm hoping there is some indication that the battery needs charging. On the positive side, I bought 2 batteries - they come in pairs - but the light only takes one - so I could carry one as a spare.

Size wise, hand held it weighs about the same as the Cateye - but aesthetically it's nowhere near as good - its a torch in a torch shape.

Overall I think it's a good light - bearing in mind you could get 4 or 5 of these for one Cateye - so if you're tight on cash and need a good light then these might be an answer. For me it will just be a secondary light for dark commutes. The extra illumination will be welcome on the country lanes and the ride will be safe in the knowledge that there is a comparable light that can get me home.

Of course, I'll be able to use it as a torch too.

ai_1

I'm not familiar with the light but I assume it's an uncontrolled conical beam?
If so it's not suitable for road use as a bright unshaped beam will dazzle oncoming traffic (both cars and cyclists) which is dangerous for everyone, yourself included and it's incredibly annoying. My recommendation would be the Philips Saferide 80lux although it's cost you quite a bit more. There's far too many cyclists using these high intensity unshaped beam lights on the roads.

slowbike

Ai_1 wrote:

I'm not familiar with the light but I assume it's an uncontrolled conical beam?
If so it's not suitable for road use as a bright unshaped beam will dazzle oncoming traffic (both cars and cyclists) which is dangerous for everyone, yourself included and it's incredibly annoying. My recommendation would be the Philips Saferide 80lux although it's cost you quite a bit more. There's far too many cyclists using these high intensity unshaped beam lights on the roads.

I think that rather depends on the brightness used. I generally run the Cateye Nano Shot + at 1/2power and will probably do the same with this Cree light. The overspill isn't anywhere near as bright as the centre - so if that is suitably pointing at the road close in front of you I don't see how it will be any more dazzling than car/truck/bus lights.

I agree that sometimes bike lights can be dazzling - but generally these are badly adjusted. What I find worse are those high power helmet mounted lights - because the riders head moves all over the place you can get dazzled quite easily. I know they're good for offroading - but that's where they should be used ...

I will try my lights out and see how much dazzle I cause (in a test environment!) - I can always tape off a section to reduce the glare if required.

slowbike

Took some quick photos on my phone last night - so not best quality - but it does show what they're capable of.

first off - the light:


My commute home has some pretty rough roads ... and I found that the light kept creeping forward in the bracket .. So looks like some modification required. It doesn't look like it'll fall out and it is tethered - but I prefer the light to stay put ... like the Cateye!

I took the photos with the lights on high power only ...

Both lights together

One advantage of the Surefire is that it sticks forwards so doesn't shine on the gear cable.

Just the Cateye


Just the Surefire


As you can see - the cateye gives a much better spread of light - the Surefire is usable though. Perhaps one of the focus enabled Surefires would be better?

Now for the dazzle ...


Neither light is overly dazzling head on (remember this is full power. (top is the cateye)

Now from an approaching drivers point of view



If anything, the Cateye is more visible from the side - I think if I was going to use the Surefire in town I'd have to get a seeme light too - but neither light was dazzling - and remember, that's on full power - it won't be needed most of the time - 1/2power is generally enough to ride on.

Verdict for now is still that the Cateye is the better light, but the Surefire is a reasonable "cheap" alternative with limitations - there are enough Surefires available that there may be one more suited to bikes ...

slowbike

oxoman wrote:

PS the original post was about have people had experience using these lights not a witch hunt against using them. These lights are way better / safer than the eveready things used up until a few years ago.

Where was the which hunt? Didn't see one ... all I saw was an opinion by Ai_1 - which I've countered with some photos ...
like you say - dazzling bike lights can be an issue - but if they're mounted in a suitable manner then there is less of an issue.
FWIW I've had car drivers dip their lights before coming around the corner when I've had the Cateye on full power so they can have a long reach - and that needs to be considered carefully.

If more and more riders fit dazzling lights then there will be a backlash and possibly regulation on their use.

tincaman

Put some invisible tape over the lense, it softens the spot, and you get more spill

johnmiosh

Back to the OP. Just bought one after recommendations from clubmates. Ready charged from the box, took it outside, its like daylight, but two lower settings are suitable for road use. The flash is really bright and annoying.

Left it on full to gauge the battery life; only one hour. I was going to recharge it and see what the battery life was on low beam. Unfortunately, it wouldn't recharge, the charger was faulty. The sellers (Hong Kong) recommended that I buy a charger locally and they would pay for it. Cheapest suitable I can find is from Maplins at £15 (light set was only £18). I have emailed them back this morning. I will let you know how the customer care goes.

Phil_D

Ai_1 wrote:

I'm not familiar with the light but I assume it's an uncontrolled conical beam?
If so it's not suitable for road use as a bright unshaped beam will dazzle oncoming traffic (both cars and cyclists) which is dangerous for everyone, yourself included and it's incredibly annoying. My recommendation would be the Philips Saferide 80lux although it's cost you quite a bit more. There's far too many cyclists using these high intensity unshaped beam lights on the roads.

what is an uncontrolled conical beam? How do you spot them?

Ouija

Those large dished torches always give incredibly spotty beams (the smaller headed 501/502's are better) when used with a smooth reflector. You might want to dissipate the beam with some privacy protection tape over the glass.....



This will diffuse the beam completely (flood, with no spot whatsoever). If you want to retain some of the spot cut a section off the edge of the circular cover (like taking a bite out of an apple) as it's the edge of the reflector that creates the spot.

blinddrew

Ouija wrote:

You might want to dissipate the beam with some privacy protection tape over the glass.....

Ooh! I've been thinking of doing a bodge on this with selotape and parallel cuts - where do you get the privacy tape?

wishitwasallflat

I have run these torch cree lights for a few years now and I cannot understand why people talk about blinding oncoming traffic. I have one with a wider head and so longer throw and its pointed at the road surface about 15-20m ahead - the other is a 501 with an orange peel reflector and it is pointed at the road from my front wheel to the end of the area lit by the other torch. So I have a path lit on the road ahead from front wheel for 20 or so m ahead and as both are pointing down there is no dazzle. Total cost with four batteries charger and mounts etc was well under £40 - I am baffled as to why anyone would pay more.

slowbike

Thanks ouija - ill look into that

ai_1

Phil_D wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

I'm not familiar with the light but I assume it's an uncontrolled conical beam?
If so it's not suitable for road use as a bright unshaped beam will dazzle oncoming traffic (both cars and cyclists) which is dangerous for everyone, yourself included and it's incredibly annoying. My recommendation would be the Philips Saferide 80lux although it's cost you quite a bit more. There's far too many cyclists using these high intensity unshaped beam lights on the roads.

what is an uncontrolled conical beam? How do you spot them?

A standard torch beam is a symetrical conical beam. i.e. there is no up/down/left/right. The shape of the lens and/or reflector will determine how the light is distributed at different angles in the beam but if you shine it at a flat surface you'll get a circular or elliptical pattern of some sort. That is not what you get from a car headlight or from a properly designed bike front light (if you can find one!).
Firstly a car headlight uses the reflectors and lens to shape the beam so that it is trapezoidal, narrow at the top and wide at the bottom. This is so that the lower portion of the beam which illuminates the foreground is sufficiently wide that you can see the full width of the road directly in front of you whicle the upper portion of the beam which is lighting up the world further down the road isn't wasting most of it's power lighting up the buildings or fields either side of the road. i.e you get a roughly rectangular stretch of road starting right in front of you and extending into the distance.
Secondly a car headlamp doesn't have hot spots or dim patches. The majority of the power is concentrated at the top of the beam with a pretty even lateral spread as this portion of the beam illuminates a much bigger area. The foreground is lit just as brightly but needs much less light to do it. The beam transitions evenly from bottom to top so that the light intensity falling on the road surface is very even across the roughly rectangular stretch of road you need to see. This gives you a much better sense of cycling in a lit area rather than following a spotlight, in other words you avoid the tunnel vision effect you get with high intensity tightly focused axial "torch" beams. Also it keeps your night vision in better shape - a really bright spot in the middle of your vision can ruin this completely.
Thridly a car headlight (dipped beam) has a sharp cutoff just below the horizon to avoid dazzling oncoming traffic. Some light is spilled above the cutoff so you can be seen coming but the intensity is much lower.

Car lights work. How often do you hear anyone worrying about how many lumens their car has? Never. They work - the end. Unfortunately bike lights with unshaped beams as used by 99% of people DON'T work, at least not as well as a front light should. The Philips Saferide 80Lux is the best light I've seen. It gives a beam very similar to a car dipped headlight although the area covered and the range are slightly smaller. It's not perfect - it needs better duration. If it was just a tad more powerful and lasted 4hrs+ it would be damn close to perfect.

Regardless of the rational given as to why an axial beam is a suitable front bike light solution, it's wrong. The two-beam approach with a spread beam and a spot for distance is better than a single beam but it's still pretty rubbish compared to proper non-symetrical optics. This isn't opinion, it's fact. The physics do not permit a symetrical beam headlight to give an even distribution of light on the ground. Unless you think hot spots, overspill and tunnel vision are a good thing you should be looking for a shaped beam. There are several made for the German market where there are restrictions forcing you to use shaped beams. As I mentioned, the Philips seems like the best for now.

At the moment bike lights are in their infancy. After decades of just not being up to the task we now have batteries and LEDs capable of producing enough light for practical, safe and effective bike lights. Unfortunately, it seems we'll have to go through the I have brighter light than you phase before people start buying the right type of light intead of the brightest light. It's a bit like 2 other product types which were at this point about 10 years ago: cameras and mobile phones. Everyone was running out to buy the digital camera with the most megapixels even though a lot of them had rubbish optics so the pictures were awful or people buying the smallest phones even though the buttons were getting unusable and sound, battery life and build quality were all a bit suspect. The phone market is still pretty hyped up but they're at least focusing on functionality. The camera market has actually seems to have matured and it's mostly about good pictures. Bike lights will follow a pattern I'm sure...

ai_1

[duplicate deleted]

Ouija

blinddrew wrote:

Ouija wrote:

You might want to dissipate the beam with some privacy protection tape over the glass.....

Ooh! I've been thinking of doing a bodge on this with selotape and parallel cuts - where do you get the privacy tape?

Wilkinson or B&Q and other hardware stores. Usually in the bathroom department. It's usually a large sheet of dimpled sticky back tape to put over bathroom windows to stop people from being able to see in. Also look on ebay under Privacy Window Film or Frosted Window Film.

As mentioned the central section of the reflector contributes almost nothing to the spot beam, all the spot comes from the outside edge. From experience i've learned that covering the central section of the glass but leaving a ring of clear glass around the edge seems to change the beam pattern not in the slightest, whereas covering just the outside edge of the glass removes the central spot entirely. Hence my recommendation to cover most of the outside edge but leave a small gap to retain a little bit of the spot.

slowbike

Ai_1 - thanks for your detailed response.

When you say that the best light you've come across is the Philips one - just how many have you tried?
There are loads of bike specific lights around the £80-100 mark - which ones have you tested?

We've discussed the spotting and how to eliminate that so the only other issue I can see is dazzle - which I've already demonstrated isn't an issue. The ultra fire is a hand held torch with a bike mount. It's not designed for bike use - hence it's imperfections - but due to its cheapness and brightness it will be used - and probably to great effect. If a bit of tape can resolve most of the problem then it's still worth it IMHO.

blinddrew

Ouija wrote:

blinddrew wrote:

Ouija wrote:

You might want to dissipate the beam with some privacy protection tape over the glass.....

Ooh! I've been thinking of doing a bodge on this with selotape and parallel cuts - where do you get the privacy tape?

Wilkinson or B&Q and other hardware stores. Usually in the bathroom department. It's usually a large sheet of dimpled sticky back tape to put over bathroom windows to stop people from being able to see in. Also look on ebay under Privacy Window Film or Frosted Window Film.

As mentioned the central section of the reflector contributes almost nothing to the spot beam, all the spot comes from the outside edge. From experience i've learned that covering the central section of the glass but leaving a ring of clear glass around the edge seems to change the beam pattern not in the slightest, whereas covering just the outside edge of the glass removes the central spot entirely. Hence my recommendation to cover most of the outside edge but leave a small gap to retain a little bit of the spot.

Cheers Ouija!

ai_1

Slowbike wrote:

Ai_1 - thanks for your detailed response.

When you say that the best light you've come across is the Philips one - just how many have you tried?
There are loads of bike specific lights around the £80-100 mark - which ones have you tested?

Not many. Did my research and bought accordingly.
You may decide that means I'm not qualified to give an opinion but I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm suggesting you look at the points I made in the previous post, which are not a matter of opinion, and hopefully you will be convinced. My background is physics and engineering so I'm inclined to be fairly objective and analytical in these things. I'm not trying to sell you anything and I'm not telling you product X is the best just because it's what I happen to have.

We've discussed the spotting and how to eliminate that so the only other issue I can see is dazzle - which I've already demonstrated isn't an issue. The ultra fire is a hand held torch with a bike mount. It's not designed for bike use - hence it's imperfections - but due to its cheapness and brightness it will be used - and probably to great effect. If a bit of tape can resolve most of the problem then it's still worth it IMHO.

The proposed solution to "spotting" is not a way to eliminate it. It will diffuse the beam and take the sharp edges off but it will not address any of the issues I mentioned earlier. The nearfield will still be too bright, the distance too dim and the beam spread inappropriate, etc.... It will give you a usable solution but if you're riding unlit roads I think approx £70/€80 (Rosebikes or Amazon) is well worth it for what I think is a much better and safer solution. As I mentioned previously, duration is a bit of an issue but if it's sufficient for your purposes I'd recommend it.

Anyway, whatever you end up using, best of luck and enjoy your night riding.
Sorry for rambling on

Diamant49

I have a Philips Saferide, its a couple of years old so not the latest version. Used it 3-4 times and I really dislike it - its heavy, not enough light for twisty downhills on backroads - but worst of all are the "artifacts". The reflector is folded into shape by the looks of things and all the folds or whatever they are create bright lines in the beam - it just does my head in and I hate it!

Its ok on already lit roads, where the street lights drown out the artifacts - so basically I see it as a commuter light and nothing else.

Maybe the newer version is better and these artifacts are not as prominent? Anyway, just dug it out again to look at it again - I have to commute to work next week so it would be better for that.

Phil_D

Diamant49 wrote:

I have a Philips Saferide, its a couple of years old so not the latest version. Used it 3-4 times and I really dislike it - its heavy, not enough light for twisty downhills on backroads - but worst of all are the "artifacts". The reflector is folded into shape by the looks of things and all the folds or whatever they are create bright lines in the beam - it just does my head in and I hate it!

Its ok on already lit roads, where the street lights drown out the artifacts - so basically I see it as a commuter light and nothing else.

Maybe the newer version is better and these artifacts are not as prominent? Anyway, just dug it out again to look at it again - I have to commute to work next week so it would be better for that.

How much are you thinking of selling it for?