Are cycling shoes really faster than trainers

lotus49

zoltansocrates wrote:

id in turn say that was bollox chumster

Well, you would be wrong.

The whole pulling thing is a complete myth. Studies of real professional cyclists have shown they do not do it.

I have provided plenty of links to real studies on this very forum that prove this. I am sure I can find them again if you don't believe me.

♠ChumBucket♠

The Best Cyclists Don’t Produce Power When They Pull Up on the Backstroke
As mentioned earlier, force-measuring pedals show us that no cyclists, not even track pursuiters who are capable of silky smooth pedal strokes at 130 rpm, really exert upward force when the pedal is coming up from dead bottom centre.

Taken from here-

http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com ... ly-cyclist

♠ChumBucket♠

As power level increases, cyclists don't pedal in circles.

Martin cited 1991 research by Ed Coyle, et al, involving regional level competitors and elite racers -- pros and U.S. national team members. Coyle found that elite cyclists pushed down harder and pulled up less than the less-accomplished riders.

Surprisingly, the elite riders were more efficient even though they were pedaling less smoothly. They had a higher percentage of endurance-loving slow-twitch muscle fibers than the regional riders and Coyle theorized that may have skewed the data regarding efficiency.

To find out if Coyle was right, another study examined 8 different riders with similar muscle fiber makeup pedaling with 4 different techniques: (1) their normal, preferred technique; (2) concentrating on pedaling circles; (3) pulling up on the backstroke; (4) pushing down hard. Pedal forces and metabolic costs were measured.

Pulling up was significantly less efficient than the riders' preferred technique. The study indicated that the muscles that flex the leg and allow pulling up the pedal on the backstroke are intrinsically less efficient than those that push down.

Taken from here-

http://www.roadbikerider.com/cycling-sc ... al-strokes

trappy666

went for a ride for the first time with my new shoes and I honestly couldn't tell if I was faster or slower than if I was wearing trainers. One thing I will say is that I felt like I was learning to ride a bike again. I found it quite difficult to start with and seeing as I have to stop regularly for junctions and traffic lights, I found it pretty annoying :x

adamfo

Cycling is about efficiency. Compressing a rubber trainer sole every power stroke must be wasting some.

Chris Froomes head weighs around 4.7 kg. Imagine the energy he wastes in a 3 week tour moving it up and down looking at his stem !

kwi

trappy666 wrote:

went for a ride for the first time with my new shoes and I honestly couldn't tell if I was faster or slower than if I was wearing trainers. One thing I will say is that I felt like I was learning to ride a bike again. I found it quite difficult to start with and seeing as I have to stop regularly for junctions and traffic lights, I found it pretty annoying :x

It will take a while to get use to unclipping and clipping in when you need to, learn to track stand for traffic lights and junctions for the cool factor. Only to have it ruined when you do the comedy slow-mo fall when you forget you're clipped on.

trappy666

kwi wrote:

trappy666 wrote:

went for a ride for the first time with my new shoes and I honestly couldn't tell if I was faster or slower than if I was wearing trainers. One thing I will say is that I felt like I was learning to ride a bike again. I found it quite difficult to start with and seeing as I have to stop regularly for junctions and traffic lights, I found it pretty annoying :x

It will take a while to get use to unclipping and clipping in when you need to, learn to track stand for traffic lights and junctions for the cool factor. Only to have it ruined when you do the comedy slow-mo fall when you forget you're clipped on.

I made a little adjustment to the tension today and I think on the way to work today I'll take my foot off early so I know that if I fall, its my own fault. I used to track stand when I was a teen thinking I was cool but now there is nothing that can make me look cool

diamonddog

trappy666 wrote:

went for a ride for the first time with my new shoes and I honestly couldn't tell if I was faster or slower than if I was wearing trainers. One thing I will say is that I felt like I was learning to ride a bike again. I found it quite difficult to start with and seeing as I have to stop regularly for junctions and traffic lights, I found it pretty annoying :x

Stick with it you will get used to it, the majority of my rides all start out with lots of junctions, roundabouts and traffic lights. It's all about timing your approach so you don't need to unclip, some days it works other days you just have to unclip and wait.

♠ChumBucket♠

So, we can assume the pull stroke is just myth then, regurgitated tripe by wannabe racers?

I wouldn't advise anyone ride in trainers, if you don't want SPD then buy some hard/stiff soled walking/leisure shoes- this is what I use. Thin/soft soles will make your feet suffer after a while, you'll be just as fast, just not as comfortable for so long.

simon_masterson

adamfo wrote:

Cycling is about efficiency. Compressing a rubber trainer sole every power stroke must be wasting some.

The same probably occurs with your tyres, and anything else in your transmission with any 'give' in it - whilst it's plausible (I have seen no statistics on the matter), it's hardly the point.

♠ChumBucket♠

The sudden silence is deafening!!

iPete

I pull up loads. fact.

djm501

TMI

I just did an experiment - I put my roadshoes and my trainers side by side on my driveway - turned on the stopwatch and fired the starter pistol.

Result? It was a tie :-)

lotus49

iPete wrote:

I pull up loads. fact.

If that's true (and I don't believe it for a minute) then you are doing it wrongly.

iPete

lotus49 wrote:

iPete wrote:

I pull up loads. fact.

If that's true (and I don't believe it for a minute) then you are doing it wrongly.

Should add the caveat, this is on my fixie doing my stop start communt through town... Although I do give it a right yank up the Surrey Hills too..

NITR8s

I dont believe it makes that much of a difference, other than the fact with clipless peddles you remove the chance of your feat slipping off the pedals.

When I visted my parents last I hired a road bike and had a go at the local weekly 10m TT. The hire bike was a standard Trek 1.5 with toe strap pedals. (rubbish bike) The week before I set a PR on my clubs 10m TT of 28.07, on my Pinarello FP-Uno with clip on TT bars. On the Trek without TT bars and toe straps I managed a time of 28.30.

Yes it was a different course so that has to be considered, however it was pooring with rain so I didnt have the toe straps done up as I didnt want to risk a two wheel slide without being able to remove my feet quickly. Also the Trek was far to big for me in every aspect and considering the lack of TT bar fitted which I feel makes a big difference.

goonz

I pull up and always notice a increase in speed. I went out on a ride with an ex MTBer champ who now trains kids in MTBing on a national level and he basically taught me about pulling. On a hill he would speed away from changing from pushing to pulling and I found the same too. On my SS on Ditchling Beacon I pulled myself up it the whole way and that was TOUGH! At the end of that I noticed new muscles in my calf that had pretty much developed just from that one climb!

IMO it actually works.

lotus49

When I see someone ride up a hill with their feet underneath flat pedals I shall believe they were pulling. Until then, I shall believe the numerous studies that show that top class cyclists do not pull but also show that people believe they are pulling even when there is still a downward force on the pedals and all they are really doing is reducing the downward force and not actually pulling up at all.

Having said that, fixie riders probably do do it when stopping (I forgot you had a fixie iPete) but that is a very different situation.

Initialised

I was talking to a colleague about this, he complained of achy shins and ankles toward the end of long rides in trainers. It stopped happening when he switched to stiffer shoes and clipless pedals.

With good flats like XC and DH riders tend to use you can flick up the back end of the bike using the grippers but you don't get the full upstroke when clipped in, hence XC riders tend to use platformed clipless like Mallets. For most MTBers it matters less but I find you also have more control of the rear end of the bike when clipped in on fast, wide gravelly/loose surfaced descents so more precise steering than on flats.

For road riding the benefit is a more uniform stroke and allowing the rider to use more muscle groups i.e. push up one hill, pull on the next to even out the load and fatigue.

wandsworth

I moved to clipless when I bought a road bike a couple of months ago. I wouldn't go back now. However, it's important to spend a bit of time getting the cleat positions right. That would be part of a full bike fit, but you can do it yourself too.

Throbbe

djm501 wrote:

TMI

I just did an experiment - I put my roadshoes and my trainers side by side on my driveway - turned on the stopwatch and fired the starter pistol.

Result? It was a tie :-)

Wait, what? I'll go faster if I wear a tie? Does it need to be in club colours?

goonz

djm501 wrote:

TMI

I just did an experiment - I put my roadshoes and my trainers side by side on my driveway - turned on the stopwatch and fired the starter pistol.

Result? It was a tie :-)

Are your roah shoes red? Everyone knows red makes you go faster.

Bucksspeedyboy

I can't believe there is any debate about wearing trainers v. Clipless/cleats. If I see someone on a road bike wearing trainers With flat pedals know instantly that they are either newbies or don't know what they are doing.

simon_masterson

Perhaps someone stating the obvious really was what this thread needed.

kingstonian

Bucksspeedyboy wrote:

I can't believe there is any debate about wearing trainers v. Clipless/cleats. If I see someone on a road bike wearing trainers With flat pedals know instantly that they are either newbies or don't know what they are doing.

This