18 seconds to tear two families apart
max1234
Posts: 71
There's a very interesting article in today's Telegraph (link below) describing how a cyclist was killed by a drivers negligence, and the effect on both families. It's unusually effective at showing how the driver was seriously and criminally at fault, even without any intent on her part. Hopefully articles like this, if widely read, will make people more aware of the devastation caused by ignoring other road users.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... apart.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... apart.html
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Comments
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Thank you posting this, I hope others read it and instead of being angry they realize just how vulnerable we are when we are riding. This is one message that really needs to go viral!
If you know the people involved then please pass on my condolences, the article really touched me and made me cry!
NP0 -
Tragic.0
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Tragic story, had me going from unable to see the screen due to my eyes welling up, to sheer anger at the comments by friends of Mrs Mclure.
Until people dont dismiss this kind of thing as
"it could happen to anyone"
us cyclists will never get the space and respect we deserve on the road.
It absolutely disgusts me that the driver's neighbours regard her sentence as harsh and underserved.0 -
Very sad story, and underlines the fact that most car drivers have no idea of the killing potential of the machine that they drive.
Nearly all original satnavs that I've seen (my own car included) are in the centre console, meaning that you have to take your eyes off the road to look at/manipulate them. It's all too easy to get distracted and look at it for a bit longer than you thought......
As with in car TV, perhaps it should be disabled above a certain speed....?0 -
Thank you for sharing... Words not needed0
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Totally heart wrenching. For the Victims family and now the family of the driver at fault too.
I often be moan the soft sentences handed down to drivers who Kill and Injure cyclists through lack of care and consideration to the fact that they are driving a 1 ton plus metal projectile.
The statistic of 122 cyclist killed in Britain this year is truly shocking.
I couldn't get out on my club run this morning as Mrs W is working all weekend and I m baby sitting but I was appalled this morning to see a cyclist wearing no helmet and an MP3 player with headphones in on the inside lane of the A46 near my home.
I personally feel there is no excuse for not wearing a helmet, and in addition to wearing headphones on what is a major A road its just pure suicide.
I think both parties need to be more mindful and considerate of one another.
I don't want to detract from the tragedy that took Tony's life as he was no way at fault. and my heart goes out to all concerned.
Lets all stay safe out there.0 -
Nairnster wrote:Tragic story, had me going from unable to see the screen due to my eyes welling up, to sheer anger at the comments by friends of Mrs Mclure.
Until people dont dismiss this kind of thing as
"it could happen to anyone"
us cyclists will never get the space and respect we deserve on the road.
It absolutely disgusts me that the driver's neighbours regard her sentence as harsh and underserved.
I thought the same thing about the neighbours comments, flip them over and she could have been talking about a neighbour who won the lottery. Most people don't take nearly enough care when driving, always desperate to squeeze through and save a few seconds.0 -
I suggest the neighbour's view would be a little different had one of theirs had been killed in such circumstances.
@ Tim Wand, I would never wear a piece of kit that deafened me to traffic noise and I do wear a helmet. However, if I were to be struck by a motor vehicle at 40+ mph from behind both of those facts are insignificant. Responsible cyclists do what they can to minimise risks (we're all very vulnerable) I feel it's drivers that need educating.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
I cycled across that junction circa 15mins before that accident happened, and an hour and a half later we recrossed it in a car with my wife and daughter when the A4 was closed off, and we didn't at the time know what the incident was. It is a not uncommon location along there because the A4 there is straight with 2 or 3 minor road junctions, so unfortunately the common incident involves a motorbike versus a car pulling out onto the A4, which is what we presumed. But I distinctly remember my wife saying words to the effect of "but you are careful when you cycle along here" , and "I worry about you when you are out for a couple of hours and don't know if you are ok".
And then I thinki found out on the Monday /day after that it had been a cyclist, and we couldn't work out how a much slower cyclist had been involved.
So this one is very close to home, not least geographically. It caused a lot of concern and debate around here.
Terrible terrible situation.0 -
'No one deserves what she is going through' - that's a comment from a neighbour talking about the driver, I'm speechless! No doubt they'd feel the same if she had killed her husband? Causing a road death will always be seen as 'less serious' than killing someone any other way because of that whole attitude that it could be any one of us, credit to the CPS and judge in this case for at least pushing for the most serious charge and giving a custodial sentence which are all too rare and help perpetuate the 'it was just an accident' attitude.
I'm sure the driver is remorseful and that it will have a huge impact on her and her family but yes, she does deserve what she is going through.0 -
tim wand wrote:Totally heart wrenching. For the Victims family and now the family of the driver at fault too.
I often be moan the soft sentences handed down to drivers who Kill and Injure cyclists through lack of care and consideration to the fact that they are driving a 1 ton plus metal projectile.
The statistic of 122 cyclist killed in Britain this year is truly shocking.
I couldn't get out on my club run this morning as Mrs W is working all weekend and I m baby sitting but I was appalled this morning to see a cyclist wearing no helmet and an MP3 player with headphones in on the inside lane of the A46 near my home.
I personally feel there is no excuse for not wearing a helmet, and in addition to wearing headphones on what is a major A road its just pure suicide.
I think both parties need to be more mindful and considerate of one another.
I don't want to detract from the tragedy that took Tony's life as he was no way at fault. and my heart goes out to all concerned.
Lets all stay safe out there.
Why does there need to be an excuse?
I really don't understand why anyone thinks they have the right to tell someone else how to look after their own safety. As a human being in any situation, I have a responsibility to not infringe upon other people's right to safety; the only condition I should be able to dictate is that they must not make it unreasonably difficult for me to do so. If someone is cycling within the law and in a predictable manner, that condition has been met.
Whether they choose to waive their right to safety - by any method other than failing to meet aforementioned condition - is a matter for their free will in all but the most extreme circumstances*. Plenty of people think any on-road cycling is "appalling" because of the danger - what makes them wrong and you right? Don't say "because it's healthier to cycle than not to" - you could get just as healthy sitting on a turbo, or only cycling off-road. Thinking you would be as happy and healthy with just these options is no more presumptious than thinking someone cycling without a helmet would be as happy and healthy without that option. And as far as "cost to the NHS/loved ones" goes - do you really want to go down that road? How many things, exactly, do you want banned on that basis?
It sounds to me far more like the words of someone trying desperately to find a reason to avoid accepting their responsibility. Because that's what this "both parties need to look out for one another" bollocks is - an attempt to duck responsibility. If someone makes it easy for you to avoid hitting them, they've done all you should be able to ask.
*you could argue, for instance, no sane person would ever give informed consent to taking heroin, so anyone who would do so can have their wishes overruled. But that is a VERY big presumption to make about someone else's choices - so you better had some damn good evidence for doing so. "My helmet split in two once" is nowhere near, nor is argument from authority. Another exception would be workplace health and safety law - but only because you are already most likely having your free will interfered with, by your employer. Since it's often impossible for a court to decide whether or not an employee did something dangerous of their own free will, or because they thought they'd get fired if they didn't, an assumption must be made - and the least bad assumption to make is that an employee would not choose to waive their right to safety of their own free will.0 -
Had that article forwarded to me on twitter yesterday, along with a question - "How can you protect yourself when there are idiots like that on the road?".
I answered honestly "we can't, it's simply the risk we take to do something we love".
I then looked at my 4yo son eating breakfast next to me, and for the first time in a long time, I wondered if it was all worth it and if I had my priorities wrong.
24 hours later, I'm still wondering.0 -
IanREmery wrote:Had that article forwarded to me on twitter yesterday, along with a question - "How can you protect yourself when there are idiots like that on the road?".
I answered honestly "we can't, it's simply the risk we take to do something we love".
I then looked at my 4yo son eating breakfast next to me, and for the first time in a long time, I wondered if it was all worth it and if I had my priorities wrong.
24 hours later, I'm still wondering.
^^^ this
Been thinking the same recently
That being said...... everything in life is a risk........ some things are just more risky than others
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+1 Rabk. You could get run down by a drink driver whilst walking along the path. Ultimately if you need to avoid risk you would never leave your house.0
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Slightly different but I know quite a few people who are reconsidering racing now following a fatality in a local road race. I think about the outcome of this sort of thing quite regularly whereas when I was younger I'd just jump on the bike but then I also drive around 30k miles a year, visit construction sites etc. etc. all of which have some risk and the reality is that whilst 122 deaths in a year is way too high when viewed as a probability it is still very low.0
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I don't think many of us are genuinely 'anti-motorist' per se - many of us also drive cars of course. My reality is that the vast majority of car drivers are reasonably careful and attentive to cyclists, and I commute into London most days, as I did this morning.
However, the idea of someone driving around in a ton an a half of metal, while not paying attention to their surroundings even for two seconds, let alone eighteen as here, is categorically un-defendable. Whether the driver hit a cyclist, a pedestrian, or another car, the principle is the same; I also wonder as others do whether that person should ever be allowed to drive a vehicle again.
I think we have to question developments in the Motor-Car industry too - modern vehicles are now filled with devices that can (and do) distract driver's attention; look at the ad for the new Renault 'Cross-Over' vehicle - it displays a screen wth satnav, google, and other 'applications' that can only distract drivers from what they should be doing - paying complete attention to their surroundings. A car is a lethal weapon in the hands of the wrong person.Raymondo
"Let's just all be really careful out there folks!"0 -
Rabk wrote:IanREmery wrote:Had that article forwarded to me on twitter yesterday, along with a question - "How can you protect yourself when there are idiots like that on the road?".
I answered honestly "we can't, it's simply the risk we take to do something we love".
I then looked at my 4yo son eating breakfast next to me, and for the first time in a long time, I wondered if it was all worth it and if I had my priorities wrong.
24 hours later, I'm still wondering.
^^^ this
Been thinking the same recently
That being said...... everything in life is a risk........ some things are just more risky than others
I understand the feelings you are sharing but fortunately for me the riding really doesn't figure high on the risk scale for me. I have to admit to being fortunate in being able to ride for many hours from my door on generally quiet roads. Not without any risk, but I consider it pretty low.
However, I've been interested in getting into road / crit racing and have had a few goes over the last 2 or 3 years but there the risk calculation is probably too far the other way. At 42 I really can't quite reconcile it in my head that stupid crashes keep occurring in the low level races I've entered and I am going to get hurt and miss work at some point if I keep at it. I think I have to admit that one may have passed me by!0 -
Nairnster wrote:Tragic story, had me going from unable to see the screen due to my eyes welling up, to sheer anger at the comments by friends of Mrs Mclure.
Until people dont dismiss this kind of thing as
"it could happen to anyone"
us cyclists will never get the space and respect we deserve on the road.
It absolutely disgusts me that the driver's neighbours regard her sentence as harsh and underserved.
I hope the neighbours are trying to find some way of sounding supportive when, in truth, her actions are indefensible. This sums it up:Another neighbour, Ronnie Mendoza, 47, said of the sentence: “I think it’s all a bit harsh. I know it should never have happened, but anyone could make that mistake.”
It wasn't a mistake that caused the accident, it was a deliberate act. She decided to concentrate on her satnav rather than the road. Anyone could do that but few would be so stupid. I wonder how her neighbours would feel if they were sat alongside a taxi driver doing the same thing?
Jeremy Clarkson once said something to the effect of cars needing great big spikes fitted to the steering wheel, not airbags, to make people drive carefully. Not often I'd say it, but I think he's on to something. People are far too blasé about motoring these days.
Rob0 -
However, lots of people die through accidents in the home every year.IanREmery wrote:+1 Rabk. You could get run down by a drink driver whilst walking along the path. Ultimately if you need to avoid risk you would never leave your house.
I understand the reasoning about taking an unnecessary risk, but you cannot go through life not doing what you enjoy because there is a danger element involved.
@ IanREmery, who's to say in years to come your son may want to do things that are normal but dangerous, like riding a high powered motorbike. What would your attitude to his desire be?
My son used to drive about 70,000miles a year doing his last job. Mrs Tank and I used to worry about him all the time. Living is dangerous but not "living" life is a wasted life in itself.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
After reading this I conducted a small experiment to myself.
A hundred metres from my house this a set of traffic that tend to hold you for a fair amount of time, I set up a timer for 18 seconds and sat there with my eyes closed....after a while I started to get quite twitchy and nervous and there was still a reasonable few seconds before the alarm went off. I set the timer again and set off , I managed to get through the next set of traffic lights and halfway round a sweeping bend, it was a horrifying distance, I could've caused some major carnage in that time.
Overall I fail to see how anyone could concieve of saying in any type of defence of driver. The "it could happen to anyone" quote is an awful response, they should try timing themselves for 18 seconds driving, they'd probably think differently!!0 -
crispybug2 wrote:After reading this I conducted a small experiment to myself.
A hundred metres from my house this a set of traffic that tend to hold you for a fair amount of time, I set up a timer for 18 seconds and sat there with my eyes closed....after a while I started to get quite twitchy and nervous and there was still a reasonable few seconds before the alarm went off. I set the timer again and set off , I managed to get through the next set of traffic lights and halfway round a sweeping bend, it was a horrifying distance, I could've caused some major carnage in that time.
Overall I fail to see how anyone could concieve of saying in any type of defence of driver. The "it could happen to anyone" quote is an awful response, they should try timing themselves for 18 seconds driving, they'd probably think differently!!
I agree. Eighteen seconds is a very long time to have your eyes off the road. The driver was very foolish and I'm afraid she is paying for her crime.Purveyor of "up"
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That's a really good article, lots of food for thought.
I can't believe the comments the drivers neighbours have made though. There's no 2 ways about it, she acted completely irresponsibly , was driving dangerously and took someones life. Don't think the prison sentence is harsh at all, in fact I'd say it's fair. Guess it must be difficult for the judge to decide exactly what sentence to pass...
There needs to be a clear message that actions like this are dangerous, irresponsible and as we've seen have grave consequences but there's not the same need to lock her away in the same sense you would you're typical murder or whatever. She doesn't need to be in prison to keep her away from society, she need to be there to be punished. While life must be a living hell for the victim's family there's nothing that can be done to undo the actions, and a longer custodial sentence will just end up punishing the driver's family unduly at the end of the day. The only problem is with her only serving 9 months is that it doesn't set much of a deterrent or make much of an example out of her to really make others consider their actions on the road.
Don't feel the driving ban is long enough at all, while this is going to haunt her for the rest of her life and she's probably never going to take her eyes off the road again, a lifetime ban would to me be a fair punishment, make an example out of her act as a real message to people about the severity of such incidents.0 -
I'm surprised there aren't more of the incidents, the number of people you see texting whist driving is frightening. I thought that using the phone whilst driving was bad enough but texting is far worse.
I watched a driver a year or so ago drive 100yds without looking up, he thought that if he just left a big space in front of him and was doing 10mph in a moving queue, it was fine. I was in a side road (in the car) waiting to turn right BTW, if I had pulled into 'his' lane I would then have had to wait there for the left approaching traffic to stop for me, and that's what i nearly did. But something just didn't look "right" so i waited, and didn't get the broadside which would have inevitably been my fault.
The older I get, the better I was.0 -
Frank the tank wrote:
However, lots of people die through accidents in the home every year.IanREmery wrote:+1 Rabk. You could get run down by a drink driver whilst walking along the path. Ultimately if you need to avoid risk you would never leave your house.
I understand the reasoning about taking an unnecessary risk, but you cannot go through life not doing what you enjoy because there is a danger element involved.
@ IanREmery, who's to say in years to come your son may want to do things that are normal but dangerous, like riding a high powered motorbike. What would your attitude to his desire be?
My son used to drive about 70,000miles a year doing his last job. Mrs Tank and I used to worry about him all the time. Living is dangerous but not "living" life is a wasted life in itself.
A very valid point Frank. I would like to say that I'd let him do his own thing, but the wife and I already agreed when he was born that he was going to be kept locked up until he was at least 30 anyway...
On a more serious note, Sunday was the first time since taking up cycling properly 3 years ago that I've been asked directly "is it worth it?" and it kinda spooked me. You are right, it's more dangerous NOT to live a life, than to live it.0 -
Angry Bird wrote:
I can't believe the comments the drivers neighbours have made though.
I'd suggest the neighbours haven't really looked into or been aware of the finer details though. They're well aware of a seemingly good neighbour being the admittedly guilty party in a terrible, fatal incident. But...I doubt they've actually discussed or analysed the specific contributory factors at great length that make this more than just a terrible accident.
I don't think longer in prison serves much purpose but totally agree with a far longer driving ban.0 -
In this instance I agree - I don't believe she had even thought about the ramifications of her inattention and in reality she was probably driving using peripheral vision to keep her on the road. We already have too many drivers on the road - so revoking a normally law abiding persons licence to drive for a long period would be sensible punishment.morstar wrote:I don't think longer in prison serves much purpose but totally agree with a far longer driving ban.
I don't think it would work as well for those happy to flout the law - those who use mobiles whilst driving or those significantly exceeding speed limits - as they're more likely to drive without a valid licence.0 -
Slowbike wrote:
I don't think it would work as well for those happy to flout the law - those who use mobiles whilst driving or those significantly exceeding speed limits - as they're more likely to drive without a valid licence.
Driving whilst holding a mobile to your ear is something I'm quite militant about, the fine is way too cheap. I'd like to see it raised by at least 3-4 times what it is now. Trouble is politicians are scared of taking on motorists as a group and a lot of drivers just see it as something to not get caught doing rather than not doing it at all.0 -
I'd like to see this offence being punishable by instant removal of the vehicle and it being systematically crushed, end of.verylonglegs wrote:Slowbike wrote:
I don't think it would work as well for those happy to flout the law - those who use mobiles whilst driving or those significantly exceeding speed limits - as they're more likely to drive without a valid licence.
Driving whilst holding a mobile to your ear is something I'm quite militant about, the fine is way too cheap. I'd like to see it raised by at least 3-4 times what it is now. Trouble is politicians are scared of taking on motorists as a group and a lot of drivers just see it as something to not get caught doing rather than not doing it at all.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
A tragic article that does highlight the danger of cycling and driving whilst distracted. As I read that article I could feel myself getting upset and angry and also the comments about looking across to children (I have two at 3yo and 2yo) and thinking "is it worth it?" and my direct response to the answer would be no... but come 5pm and I get on my bike and ride 17mile home through backroads an A-roads I'm not going to be thinking about this article at all and I think that makes it so much worse.0
