Are slicks REALLY OK in the wet?

e999sam

Here's what Sheldon Brown has to say.
"Tread for on-road use
Bicycle tires for on-road use have no need of any sort of tread features; in fact, the best road tires are perfectly smooth, with no tread at all!

Unfortunately, most people assume that a smooth tire will be slippery, so this type of tire is difficult to sell to unsophisticated cyclists. Most tire makers cater to this by putting a very fine pattern on their tires, mainly for cosmetic and marketing reasons. If you examine a section of asphalt or concrete, you'll see that the texture of the road itself is much "knobbier" than the tread features of a good-quality road tire. Since the tire is flexible, even a slick tire deforms as it comes into contact with the pavement, acquiring the shape of the pavement texture, only while in contact with the road.

People ask, "But don't slick tires get slippery on wet roads, or worse yet, wet metal features such as expansion joints, paint stripes, or railroad tracks?" The answer is, yes, they do. So do tires with tread. All tires are slippery in these conditions. Tread features make no improvement in this"

Pross

TheHound wrote:

I'm not really willing to take Wikipedia as evidence.

I'm looking for actual research done in this area. Cycling is full of myths about this or that being better, then when someone actually looks into it in depth it turns out wrong.

That's entirely up to you but as common wisdom (for reasons explained on here several times) surely it is up to you to offer evidence to disprove the theory? If nobbly tyres were better in the wet do you not think the pro teams would be using them when racing in wet conditions down mountain passes as in the Vuelta on Saturday? At that level anything that provides an advantage gets used and yet they persist in the use of slick tyres. Why?

vorsprung

What noone else has mentioned is that tread is good if there is snow on the road or slick mud.

Tyres show better adhesion with tread under these conditions

When it has just started raining, the road is "greasy" and I don't think any tyres grip well. When it has rained a lot then I agree with everyone else, slightly under inflated slicks grip best.

Michelin do a "Grip" version of their Pro Race tyre which is completely slick but with a soft compound. These are fabulous in the wet.

g00se

Bill Gates wrote:

What are the best tyres for winter training then? I've started reading some on the Continental blurb on GP4000S versus Gatorskins, etc. What do most folk choose?

It's a matter of personal choice regarding puncture resistance. In winter, the roads are wetter, the rain washes debris into the road, and also acts as a lubricant to flints - so you get a greater chance of punctures.

I've got hardwall gatorskins for the puncture resistance, but I don't like the feel of them - too dead. But they last forever and no punctures to date. I reckon when I put them back on the bike for this winter, they'll last through this season too. when they do wear out though, I'll try something more supple, like the Conti 4 Seasons or go back to the Ultermo DDs (they cut up and punctured a couple of times - but were fun to ride on).

bill_gates

There was a twin pack of GP4000S on Wiggle today so I ordered them. I'll try them on mine or the other half's bike and then either get the same or maybe try the alternative.

mmacavity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVgJxMuJ ... r_embedded

mmacavity

http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_tread

jezzpalmer

mmacavity wrote:

http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_tread

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to take Schwalbe (whoever they are) as evidence.

bianchimoon

jezzpalmer wrote:

mmacavity wrote:

http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_tread

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to take Schwalbe (whoever they are) as evidence.

Mikey41

BlueEyedGirl wrote:

On the front I have a Giant FlatGuard PR3, on the back a Mavic Aksion, both 700 x 23. I have a pair of Michelin Pro3 Race available, same size, which i could use if better, but the sidewalls are an awful colour for my bike!

I have experience of the Giant PR3, I found cornering grip in the wet to be quite good, but where they fell down was traction. I could spin the rear wheel if I had to get out of the saddle on a hill. A friend has the Mavic tyres and they seemed to be a similar story. I've never ridden a Michelin tyre yet, but I think they would be better than either current option once scrubbed in.

Don't use a brand new tyre in the wet, they will have residue of the release agent that is used to get them out of the moulds in the factory. If you ride them in the wet fresh out of the box, they will be very slippery. After a decent dry ride (about 20 miles) that will get worn off and you will get proper grip.

What really impressed me about the GP4000S in the wet was its traction. I had to get out of the saddle on a 17% hill and the wheel did not spin. The black chilli compound really works!

bill_gates

Mikey41 wrote:

What really impressed me about the GP4000S in the wet was its traction. I had to get out of the saddle on a 17% hill and the wheel did not spin. The black chilli compound really works!

Did you opt for 23mm or 25mm?

Mikey41

23mm. 25s won't fit under the mudguards.

mmacavity

Who is Mike Burrows?

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/13q11/cycling/tyres.html

g00se

mmacavity wrote:

Who is Mike Burrows?

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/13q11/cycling/tyres.html

Norfolk based bicycle designer - he did Boardman's Lotus time-trial and Olympic's bike. Heavily involved in the design of the compact frame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Burrows

John.T

Just to be pedantic all tyres have TREAD. It is the bit that may or may not have a GROOVES on it.

And as others have said slicks are just fine. It is the tread compound that makes the difference in grip.

BlueEyedGirl

mmacavity wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVgJxMuJ43c&feature=player_embedded

Unreal.... Actually, I suspect is unreal, there are some signs of photoshopping. Is it a spoof, does anyone know?

andrewjoseph

BlueEyedGirl wrote:

mmacavity wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVgJxMuJ43c&feature=player_embedded

Unreal.... Actually, I suspect is unreal, there are some signs of photoshopping. Is it a spoof, does anyone know?

I doubt it is photoshopped, it's much easier to get a good rider to do that than resort to expensive, time consuming video trickery on that scale.

There is a brilliant video of a British rider going from porthcawl(south wales), to Bristol .

It's martyn Ashton going to brands hatch on YouTube. Sorry, can't cut and paste the link for some reason.

Dunk_911

Tyres are grooved on car to prevent them from aquaplaning in the wet. Your bike tyres will never aquaplane in the wet. I read in a book by Mike Burrows that a 75kg ride on 23mm tyres would need to be doing 175km/h or something for this to happen. You will however find that in wet conditions your braking performance is reduced but because of the pressure your tyres exert on the road (as a result of the small contact patch) there is much less room for water to remain under your tyre. This means that groves in your tyres surface will not actually make any difference to it's performance in the wet (below 175km/h or whatever) and only serve to function as a wear indicator. All of this assumes a smooth road by the way. as soon as you have a lose surface everything changes!