Possible to make my fixie quieter?

GJ255
GJ255 Posts: 35
edited November 2013 in Workshop
I have a Jamis Beatnik 2012 fixed gear, which is pretty quiet at the moment, but I can just about hear the chain over the sound of the wind and it's slightly annoying me. The bike's been ridden <100 miles and so everything is in pretty good condition, the chainline is at most 2-3 mm out, the chain well-lubricated and the chain tension not too high. I'm fairly sure the noise is just the chain interacting with the rear sprocket, but I was wondering if there was anything I could do to make it quieter? There is next to no noise at all coming from the chainset, so I thought it might be possible to achieve the same with the rear sprocket.

Cheers

Comments

  • pinarellokid
    pinarellokid Posts: 1,208
    you either need to buy a new BB with a different length to give the correct chainline
    or maybe adda shim behind the rear cog to move it inline slightly
    Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

    http://app.strava.com/athletes/881211
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    pinarellokid wrote:
    you either need to buy a new BB with a different length to give the correct chainline
    or maybe adda shim behind the rear cog to move it inline slightly

    Hiya, thanks for the reply. I think my chainline is at most 2-3mm out, and it could easily be only 1mm out. At first it looked like the chain was having to swerve ever so slightly inwards to reach the rear sprocket, but when I removed the chain and looked down along my chainset towards the rear sprocket, I could see no noticeable discrepancy whatsoever... The bike is purpose built to be fixed so I would be tempted to say that chainline is not a problem. Unless 1mm can make all the difference...
  • pinarellokid
    pinarellokid Posts: 1,208
    what the gap like between chain ring and rear chain stay??
    if there is a gap id say buy a slightly narrower BB to bring chain line 100%
    they are only cheap arent they !!!!
    Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

    http://app.strava.com/athletes/881211
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    pinarellokid wrote:
    what the gap like between chain ring and rear chain stay??
    if there is a gap id say buy a slightly narrower BB to bring chain line 100%
    they are only cheap arent they !!!!

    Well as I say when I looked down the line of my chainset I could see no noticeable discrepancy between it and the rear sprocket. I will go have a proper measure of my chainline to see if it is too large --- of course I don't know what 'large' is, perhaps you could advise me --- but I don't want to be messing a round buying and installing a new bottom bracket if the chainline is currently almost perfect!
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    take a picture from the rear along the chain line and let us have a look.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    nicklouse wrote:
    take a picture from the rear along the chain line and let us have a look.

    I can't get a decent photo of the chain but I have done some measurements: the rear sprocket is 41.5 mm from the centre and the chainring about 44.5.... So there is a 3mm discrepancy. Is that really enough to make a significant noise difference from a perfectly aligned chainline? And if so, what's the best way to adjust it? From the looks of things it doesn't seem like I would be able to modify the spacing at the front end, and I'm not sure how to remove space at the rear end... Here are a couple of pics if they help

    Chainset.png
    Sprocket.png

    Cheers
  • pinarellokid
    pinarellokid Posts: 1,208
    why are you running it with the chain on the left side of the frame??
    Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

    http://app.strava.com/athletes/881211
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    If it's 3mm out then that's quite a lot.

    Shorten your BB by 5 or 6mm if you can and that will help.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    pinarellokid wrote:
    why are you running it with the chain on the left side of the frame??

    It came that way --- does it make a difference which side it's on?
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    k-dog wrote:
    If it's 3mm out then that's quite a lot.

    Shorten your BB by 5 or 6mm if you can and that will help.

    OK, how would I go about doing that? I don't know if you can see from the photo but I can't see how on earth I would remove the crank-arm, and I also don't know how to find a bb that would be compatible and the right length.
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    It shouldn't make any difference to the chainline - but it means you can't flip the wheel and use the freewheel side. The freewheel would only let you have drive going backwards.

    The other problem you have is that your fixed sprocket and lockring are the wrong way - so there's a chance you could unwind it and that is really bad.

    You want to flip your BB and do it properly.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    k-dog wrote:
    It shouldn't make any difference to the chainline - but it means you can't flip the wheel and use the freewheel side. The freewheel would only let you have drive going backwards.

    The other problem you have is that your fixed sprocket and lockring are the wrong way - so there's a chance you could unwind it and that is really bad.

    You want to flip your BB and do it properly.

    It freewheels just fine...

    Also for reference, according to the specs I have:
    Bottom Bracket: Cup & Ball with seal, 116mm bolt-type axle
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    And your pedals are also the wrong way - them unwinding is also bad.

    You'll need a crank puller to remove the cranks and then you can measure the BB spindle - and then see if you can get a shorter one of the same type.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    edited September 2013
    k-dog wrote:
    And your pedals are also the wrong way - them unwinding is also bad.

    You'll need a crank puller to remove the cranks and then you can measure the BB spindle - and then see if you can get a shorter one of the same type.

    Sorry, I don't know what you mean by unwinding, nor 'the sprocket and lockring are the wrong way round'. Either way, the bike works perfectly fine, possibly because the images I posted have been reflected in the vertical.

    Back to the matter at hand --- from a preliminary glance it seems it would cost me in the region of £30 for a bb, plus I'll need the tool... I'm not sure I want to spend a quarter of what I spent on my bike on a shorter bottom bracket. Is there no other way to make a 3mm adjustment?
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    First things first you've just confused everything by agreeing that the chain is on the left - when it can't be if everything works - and now you say the pictures are flipped.

    Sitting on the saddle the chain is on the right - correct?

    So the only issue you have is chainline. It's easiest to add spacers to the rear - my local LBS has a big tub full of them and let me have some. You want to choose two that push the rear slightly to the right - so a thicker one on the non-drive side and a thinner one on the drive side - but they should add up to the original ones. Getting it within 1mm will make a nice difference.

    The main disadvantage of that us that you can't just flip the wheel as it will be wrong the other way round - but you get a little slack on the freewheel side so it would probably be rideable.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    GJ255 wrote:
    Sorry, I don't know what you mean by unwinding, nor 'the sprocket and lockring are the wrong way round'. Either way, the bike works perfectly fine, possibly because the images I posted have been reflected in the vertical.
    GJ255 wrote:
    pinarellokid wrote:
    why are you running it with the chain on the left side of the frame??

    It came that way --- does it make a difference which side it's on?

    So it didn't 'come that way'. You might get a more effective response if you don't make stuff up and thus waste the time of the folks who are trying to help you.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    k-dog wrote:
    First things first you've just confused everything by agreeing that the chain is on the left - when it can't be if everything works - and now you say the pictures are flipped.

    Sitting on the saddle the chain is on the right - correct?

    Yes, sorry for the confusion. I couldn't think off the top of my head which side the chain was on because I had never taken note of that sort of thing, but I knew I hadn't changed it or anything so I assumed it came that way. Then I went and actually took a look at the bike and it was on the right, which made me realise that the webcam I used to take the photo had presumably flipped the image.
    So the only issue you have is chainline. It's easiest to add spacers to the rear - my local LBS has a big tub full of them and let me have some. You want to choose two that push the rear slightly to the right - so a thicker one on the non-drive side and a thinner one on the drive side - but they should add up to the original ones. Getting it within 1mm will make a nice difference.

    The main disadvantage of that us that you can't just flip the wheel as it will be wrong the other way round - but you get a little slack on the freewheel side so it would probably be rideable.

    Presumably when I flip the wheel I could just redistribute the spacers as well? Anyway, this seems like a very good solution to me if I can get it to work, I'm just wondering: currently the rear sprocket (+ nuts and washers) looks like it's flush with the frame, so wouldn't I need to remove something from the drive side, rather than placing something thin on the drive side?

    Thanks
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    Rolf F wrote:
    GJ255 wrote:
    Sorry, I don't know what you mean by unwinding, nor 'the sprocket and lockring are the wrong way round'. Either way, the bike works perfectly fine, possibly because the images I posted have been reflected in the vertical.
    GJ255 wrote:
    pinarellokid wrote:
    why are you running it with the chain on the left side of the frame??

    It came that way --- does it make a difference which side it's on?

    So it didn't 'come that way'. You might get a more effective response if you don't make stuff up and thus waste the time of the folks who are trying to help you.

    I beg your pardon, but I would hardly call it making stuff up. The bike came exactly as it is in the picture, because I haven't tinkered with it since I got it. I merely didn't realise that the image had been flipped. If you don't have the time to help me I understand, but in that case why are you posting on this thread? People have no obligation to help and if they feel I am 'wasting their time' are completely entitled to go off and do something else.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    GJ255 wrote:
    People have no obligation to help and if they feel I am 'wasting their time' are completely entitled to go off and do something else.

    Of course they are. But if you want to get answers, it kind of helps if you actually pay attention to what you are being told. You can repeat as often as you like that the bike 'came like that' but it didn't. The chain is not on the left hand side of the frame even though you said it was and that is important and that caused confusion. Folk want to help - you owe it to them to pay as much attention to your problem as they are.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    GJ255 wrote:
    Presumably when I flip the wheel I could just redistribute the spacers as well? Anyway, this seems like a very good solution to me if I can get it to work, I'm just wondering: currently the rear sprocket (+ nuts and washers) looks like it's flush with the frame, so wouldn't I need to remove something from the drive side, rather than placing something thin on the drive side?

    Thanks

    Yes, you can - it's a little work though. A lot harder than just turning the wheel round.

    You're correct in a way. There are spacers in there and you will be replacing them with different ones - thinner on the drive side and thicker on the other.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    Rolf F wrote:
    GJ255 wrote:
    People have no obligation to help and if they feel I am 'wasting their time' are completely entitled to go off and do something else.

    Of course they are. But if you want to get answers, it kind of helps if you actually pay attention to what you are being told. You can repeat as often as you like that the bike 'came like that' but it didn't. The chain is not on the left hand side of the frame even though you said it was and that is important and that caused confusion. Folk want to help - you owe it to them to pay as much attention to your problem as they are.

    I beg your pardon again. I confess that I accidentally provided you guys with some misinformation --- not through lack of care or attention, but because I have little experience with bikes, had no knowledge that chains were almost always on the right, and had no reason whatsoever to think that there could be inaccuracies in the photos when I had taken them only a few hours ago. I was quick to check the photos against the bike itself, corrected my mistake, and was met with a polite message from yours truly accusing me of 'making stuff up' and 'wasting people's time'. In fact I caught the issue almost immediately after it was noticed that my bike seemed to be completely the wrong way around; the matter did not cause extended confusion or fretting. I am grateful for the help the people in this thread have given me, and if they feel I am being rude to them by not checking that photographs matched reality then they can tell me that themselves; they don't need you to do it for them.
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    k-dog wrote:
    GJ255 wrote:
    Presumably when I flip the wheel I could just redistribute the spacers as well? Anyway, this seems like a very good solution to me if I can get it to work, I'm just wondering: currently the rear sprocket (+ nuts and washers) looks like it's flush with the frame, so wouldn't I need to remove something from the drive side, rather than placing something thin on the drive side?

    Thanks

    Yes, you can - it's a little work though. A lot harder than just turning the wheel round.

    You're correct in a way. There are spacers in there and you will be replacing them with different ones - thinner on the drive side and thicker on the other.

    OK that's cool, thanks for the advice. One more question: if I do this my tyre will surely sit asymmetrically within the rear forks --- is this a problem?
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    No, a couple of mm won't make any difference to the wheel - especially if you don't have a rear brake which you don't need.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • pinarellokid
    pinarellokid Posts: 1,208
    find it strange that somebody who knows nothing about bikes choose to buy a Fixie.

    much trickier to ride than a nornal bike.
    Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

    http://app.strava.com/athletes/881211
  • k-dog
    k-dog Posts: 1,652
    To be fair lots of people ride bikes and don't know much about them. They're just not usually on this forum.
    I'm left handed, if that matters.
  • pinarellokid
    pinarellokid Posts: 1,208
    not many would choose to ride a bike you cant stop pedalling on though
    Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

    http://app.strava.com/athletes/881211
  • GJ255
    GJ255 Posts: 35
    k-dog wrote:
    No, a couple of mm won't make any difference to the wheel - especially if you don't have a rear brake which you don't need.

    OK cool, thanks for your help.
    pinarellokid wrote:
    not many would choose to ride a bike you cant stop pedalling on though

    I have quite a lot of experience riding bikes, having borrowed friends' fixies (among many other types of bikes) on several occasions, but I've always myself owned really cheap crappy bikes and have never bothered to maintain them. So my knowledge of the workings of bikes is limited. Now that I have a bike which I like, and care about, I'm very quickly learning much more about how these things work, because I'm being much more fussy and picky!
  • pinarellokid
    pinarellokid Posts: 1,208
    well thats good then.. hope you get sorted
    Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

    http://app.strava.com/athletes/881211
  • KING777
    KING777 Posts: 2
    VELOSOLO.CO.UK sell CNC machined spacer kits for adjusting and matching chain line.

    The spacers can be fitted on to the drive side of the square taper bottom bracket or between the threaded rear sprocket and the hub. They can also be used on the freewheel side if needed.

    A correctly matched chain line will be within 1mm.

    A Spacer Kit costs £7.95 plus 1st Class Postage of £2.50

    You will only need 1 kit. The items listed below are identical. Read VeloSolo's description.

    VeloSolo CNC Threaded Cog Spacer Kit http://www.velosolo.co.uk/shoptrack.html

    VeloSolo CNC Bottom Bracket Spacer Kit http://www.velosolo.co.uk/shopchain.html
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    pinarellokid wrote:
    find it strange that somebody who knows nothing about bikes choose to buy a Fixie.

    much trickier to ride than a nornal bike.

    Perhaps thats why he's got it in singlespeed mode and not fixie mode?

    Ppl really do need to read carefully ...

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