Are Canyons really worth the hassle ?
Tjgoodhew
Posts: 628
So i am looking at Canyons and obviously the massive draw is the fact you get a hell of a lot of bike for your money and there really doesnt seem to be anything else that can compete - full DA for just over 3k !!!!
However are they really worth the hassle. I remember reading a thread a while back where people were waiting 6 months for the bike to arrive and then it turns up damaged etc....
The other thing i am worried about is servicing and setting up - how do they actually arrive ? If its flat pack i would not be comfortable building it myself and then what happens if there are slight mechanical issues.
You obviously cant just take it back to where you bought it for a few quick adjustments so i am then going to have to potentially pay the LBS to set up and then look after if anything needs adjusting and/or fixing. This is the potentially going to add to the cost and outweigh the saving made on the original purchase.
I am slowly learning how to look after my own bike but im not sure i would be comfortable fiddling around with something i have just paid 3k for when in reality im still a bit of an amateur
However are they really worth the hassle. I remember reading a thread a while back where people were waiting 6 months for the bike to arrive and then it turns up damaged etc....
The other thing i am worried about is servicing and setting up - how do they actually arrive ? If its flat pack i would not be comfortable building it myself and then what happens if there are slight mechanical issues.
You obviously cant just take it back to where you bought it for a few quick adjustments so i am then going to have to potentially pay the LBS to set up and then look after if anything needs adjusting and/or fixing. This is the potentially going to add to the cost and outweigh the saving made on the original purchase.
I am slowly learning how to look after my own bike but im not sure i would be comfortable fiddling around with something i have just paid 3k for when in reality im still a bit of an amateur
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I bought a Canyon. It was no hassle.
You just have to check the availability chart to see if its in stock or when its likely to be in stock.. Or you can just phone them to check availability.
As for the damage. Mine was fine and the bike box they send it in is pretty good if you asked me.
Putting it together is a doddle, it comes with all the tools needed. As for sizing , as you have an existing road bike just match the geometry of your CAAD to the one on the chart. I didn't use the fit measuring thing as it came out wrong.0 -
You dont have to do much out of the box at all. Of course, a monkey couldn't do it but to put it another way a monkey could do it.
Most people only really get a bit of gear fettling to do if anything with a new bike, so even if you can't do it yourself and you have to spend £20 at your local bike shop then your £3000 bike is still only £3020.
What I don't get is how so many people use bike shops all the time that don't seem to have cycling friends who can help with bike maintenance for nothing. I love spending time mucking around with bikes, same with all the practically minded cyclists I know, and fixing something for a mate is always a pleasure for me.0 -
I've brought 2.
One for the Mrs which had no wait time at all on the delivery and a TT bike for me - that had a wait time and only came a week or so after the initial expected delivery.
No issues at all with either, both packaged very well - hardly any set up required.
Don't have any regrets at all and I'd happily buy another.
MikeRoad: Kuota Kebel
TT: Canyon Speedmax
Work: Norco search0 -
No offence (and its up the person what they do with their money), but why would "a bit of a amateur" look at those kind of bikes ?
Its hard to tell much between 105, Ultegra and DA at the best of times. Pros only use the high end stuff to get seconds off the time etc. For us average jo its a bit of the old "all the gear no idea" - Massively over-spec expensive bikes bought to look good rather than for there intended use.
Its like buying a pair of £500 Usain Bolt running shoes to go down the shops in.
Passed a bloke last weekend struggling Waddington Fell on a Dura Ace kitted very nice looking Felt(I think). Belly was out and he wasn't a spring chicken - but why struggle in a possibly £4000+ bike when you can struggle the same on a sub £1000 thats probably the same weight and feels exactly the same at amateur levels of riding.0 -
I think that provided you're pretty confident with your sizing (particulary for road bikes) then Canyon is a great option - buying off spec without being about to try might be a problem for some, but given that the last 4 of the last 5 'bikes' I've bought have been framesets which I haven't been able to try either, I don't think that's such a problem.
Building them is really no problem for anyone who can use a hex wrench - mine came with the gears perfectly indexed and the brakes accurately centred out of the box and barely needed any tinkering over the year or two I had it. You pay for a very good bike box (much better than the ones frames arrive in) so I'm sure the stories of bikes getting damaged are the usual internet rubbish blown up out of all proportion.
As for the question of 'why', I think that's been done to death on numerous other threads, so perhaps it's best to keep this on topic.0 -
rickeverett wrote:No offence (and its up the person what they do with their money), but why would "a bit of a amateur" look at those kind of bikes ?
Its hard to tell much between 105, Ultegra and DA at the best of times. Pros only use the high end stuff to get seconds off the time etc. For us average jo its a bit of the old "all the gear no idea" - Massively over-spec expensive bikes bought to look good rather than for there intended use.
Its like buying a pair of £500 Usain Bolt running shoes to go down the shops in.
Passed a bloke last weekend struggling Waddington Fell on a Dura Ace kitted very nice looking Felt(I think). Belly was out and he wasn't a spring chicken - but why struggle in a possibly £4000+ bike when you can struggle the same on a sub £1000 thats probably the same weight and feels exactly the same at amateur levels of riding.
Why not ?
Why do people buy 4x4 cars to drive the kids to school ?
Or Ferraris when the speed limit on the roads are 70mph ?
Or Versace jeans when a pair from primark do the same job?
Iv got the money, i like the bike and i like the idea of experiencing something close to what the guys on TV ride. Will i get the full benefit ? of course not.
But will it put a massive smile on my face and make me enjoy my riding even more ?
Im pretty sure it will0 -
It's your money but DA just wears out quicker and cost a lot more than ultegra, it's really for racing.Smarter than the average bear.0
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antfly wrote:It's your money but DA just wears out quicker and cost a lot more than ultegra, it's really for racing.
Now that is useful to know.
So wprobably better off saving the £500 and going for an ultegra build0 -
Tjgoodhew wrote:rickeverett wrote:No offence (and its up the person what they do with their money), but why would "a bit of a amateur" look at those kind of bikes ?
Its hard to tell much between 105, Ultegra and DA at the best of times. Pros only use the high end stuff to get seconds off the time etc. For us average jo its a bit of the old "all the gear no idea" - Massively over-spec expensive bikes bought to look good rather than for there intended use.
Its like buying a pair of £500 Usain Bolt running shoes to go down the shops in.
Passed a bloke last weekend struggling Waddington Fell on a Dura Ace kitted very nice looking Felt(I think). Belly was out and he wasn't a spring chicken - but why struggle in a possibly £4000+ bike when you can struggle the same on a sub £1000 thats probably the same weight and feels exactly the same at amateur levels of riding.
Why not ?
Why do people buy 4x4 cars to drive the kids to school ?
Or Ferraris when the speed limit on the roads are 70mph ?
Or Versace jeans when a pair from primark do the same job?
Iv got the money, i like the bike and i like the idea of experiencing something close to what the guys on TV ride. Will i get the full benefit ? of course not.
But will it put a massive smile on my face and make me enjoy my riding even more ?
Im pretty sure it will
Absolutely - im not saying you shouldn't.
Bikes are different to cars imo. A bike is a bike - like a shoe is a shoe. Stuff that's refined costs more and is originally made for a purpose. However in the bike industry stuff is massively over inflated because in a similar way to golf it has become a money pit.
The bikes the guys on TV ride are so fractional however - built for seconds not years. When I have been on the £3000, 4000 etc machines friends or a club might have, the only thing you might notice is say a very slightly smoother shift, perhaps a tat less road vibration (although some stiffer frames can sometimes be worse for that depending on intent). Remember if parts go or bust- they are more expensive to replace too. And you have to wonder whay is it £2000 , £4000, £6000 + more?
looks cool though0 -
Tjgoodhew wrote:antfly wrote:It's your money but DA just wears out quicker and cost a lot more than ultegra, it's really for racing.
Now that is useful to know.
So wprobably better off saving the £500 and going for an ultegra build
I think so, especially as the ultegra one seems to come with better wheels.Smarter than the average bear.0 -
Tjgoodhew wrote:So i am looking at Canyons and obviously the massive draw is the fact you get a hell of a lot of bike for your money and there really doesnt seem to be anything else that can compete - full DA for just over 3k !!!!
However are they really worth the hassle. I remember reading a thread a while back where people were waiting 6 months for the bike to arrive and then it turns up damaged etc....
They are great bikes, especially for the money. Mine came very well packaged so I suspect minimal chance of damage. The bike is packed in a way that makes putting together very easy; and you get clear instructions with tools. You'll manage it in 30 minutes with no problem. The only thing you don't get is grease to put on the pedals and carbon paste to put on the seat post to add some friction. Everything else is provided.
I wouldn't hesitate.0 -
antfly wrote:It's your money but DA just wears out quicker and cost a lot more than ultegra, it's really for racing.
I would agree with this. I have DA on my bike (completely unwarranted). I recently damaged my chain and my LBS said I may need a new cassette as well. A DA cassette was about £170 and Ultegra £50 with a difference of 40 grams between them. Fotunately a new cassette wasn't required but I have decided that for the "consumable" parts I will definitely be replacing DA with Ultegra when things wear out. I am hoping that the more substantial bits (brakes, front and rear mech etc) will have the same longevity as Ultegra.0 -
To be honest a cheaper bike with a excellent frame, longer lasting reliable Ultegra or even 105 and a good set of wheels is imo better than going all out on a 5minute £3000-4000 DuraAce money pit machine.
Also the money you save going for Ultegra can get you a cheap Winter hack so you don't mess up your new one in the wet, dirty, salty days that await in a few months time.
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antfly wrote:
No you just don't know what you're talking about.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
So it doesn't wear quicker and it isn't more expensive ?Smarter than the average bear.0
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antfly wrote:So it doesn't wear quicker and it isn't more expensive ?
No it doesn't wear out quicker, yes it is more expensive.
To move onto a more sensible conversation, nobody really 'needs' more than 105. I run Tiagra on my winter bike (though slowly thats getting migrated to 105) and DA on my dry bike. The DA brakes are significantly better (and I've changed the pads to swiss stop on the Tiagra) and the shifting is slicker if you really concentrate. I prefer the hoods as well and you get the weight advantage obviously.
Is that worth the cash? Really it depends how much it hurts to spend the cash, there is a premium to get DA but the premium is worth it on a new bike for me. YMMV.0 -
I've been incredibly happy with mine. When I ordered my CF 9.0 in January it was £1799 and arrived within two weeks. Nothing came close for the money. I would definitely buy from them again.
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=129025690 -
The cassettes wear quicker, specifically..and the extra cost is ridiculous for a consumable part. I have a Dura-ace front brake, it's very good, but the comparison here is with ultegra, not tiagra. To get back on topic, better wheels and ultegra for a lot less money or dura-ace, worse wheels and a lot more money, it's a no-brainer.Stueys wrote:antfly wrote:So it doesn't wear quicker and it isn't more expensive ?
No it doesn't wear out quicker, yes it is more expensive.
To move onto a more sensible conversation, nobody really 'needs' more than 105. I run Tiagra on my winter bike (though slowly thats getting migrated to 105) and DA on my dry bike. The DA brakes are significantly better (and I've changed the pads to swiss stop on the Tiagra) and the shifting is slicker if you really concentrate. I prefer the hoods as well and you get the weight advantage obviously.
Is that worth the cash? Really it depends how much it hurts to spend the cash, there is a premium to get DA but the premium is worth it on a new bike for me. YMMV.Smarter than the average bear.0 -
antfly wrote:
The cassettes wear quicker, specifically..and the extra cost is ridiculous for a consumable part. I have a Dura-ace front brake, it's very good, but the comparison here is with ultegra, not tiagra. To get back on topic, better wheels and ultegra for a lot less money or dura-ace, worse wheels and a lot more money, it's a no-brainer.Stueys wrote:antfly wrote:So it doesn't wear quicker and it isn't more expensive ?
No it doesn't wear out quicker, yes it is more expensive.
To move onto a more sensible conversation, nobody really 'needs' more than 105. I run Tiagra on my winter bike (though slowly thats getting migrated to 105) and DA on my dry bike. The DA brakes are significantly better (and I've changed the pads to swiss stop on the Tiagra) and the shifting is slicker if you really concentrate. I prefer the hoods as well and you get the weight advantage obviously.
Is that worth the cash? Really it depends how much it hurts to spend the cash, there is a premium to get DA but the premium is worth it on a new bike for me. YMMV.
So buy an Ultegra cassette... :roll: The difference in wear rate on my DA and Ultegra is negligible at best, but the 6700 cassette doesn't hold a candle to the 7900 cassette in operation, feel, and weight. The rest of the gruppo is similarly superior, and you can't touch DA brakes with anything short of EE.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
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rickeverett wrote:Passed a bloke last weekend struggling Waddington Fell on a Dura Ace kitted very nice looking Felt(I think). Belly was out and he wasn't a spring chicken -
It wasn't Vtech was it?!0 -
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Have to comment that having used the same DA groupset on my daily commuter since 2006 or 2007,(7800 vintage) it has worked faultlessly. I have replaced the cables once and cassette and chain at times which are no more frequent than with any other bike I've owned. I even have the original DA 7801 wheels, albeit the rims are now shot, but the hubs are original and still run smooth as silk with embarassingly little maintenance. (I do switch these wheels in summer time and will retire them this winter/ next p*ncture).
I really do not get the nay-sayers warning of quick wear on DA parts. It simply does not happen in my experience. It costs more, but having enjoyed it for 6 or 7 trouble free years, the additional cost p.a. is negligible.
Ultegra is great too, but if the funds are available why on earth not treat yourself to DA? Equally, if funds are an issue (and I fully understand in the present economic situation that funds are a hot topic for most of us), and if a new bike is required (is that a contradiction?!), Ultegra is fine. But please do not construct arguments against DA on the basis that it is fragile/ wears out quickly - simply not the case in my experience.
Peter0 -
I've used Dura-ace and Ultegra side by side for years and neither has worn out, I've just swapped out my 7800 after 6 years and it still shifted as good as the day I bought it... Top, the only Shimano failure was on a 105 shifter but that was nearly 18 years old.0
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bernithebiker wrote:rickeverett wrote:Passed a bloke last weekend struggling Waddington Fell on a Dura Ace kitted very nice looking Felt(I think). Belly was out and he wasn't a spring chicken -
It wasn't Vtech was it?!
ha no. It was MattBlack however and had FELT down the side in white/silver and definitely had DuraAce shifters and chainset.
Just thought it was odd why he was on a bike of that caliber - but if you have the dosh and want to look posh then thats fine. 0 -
I'd say my Canyon buying experience has been a bit of a ballache, but Canyon have ultimately resolved all of the issues; and the bike is very nice, DA90xx is also very nice.
Would I buy another? I would if something tickled my fancy, but I'd probably not pre-order next time.0
