Chain cleaner - to buy or not to buy?

glyn496
glyn496 Posts: 4
edited September 2013 in Workshop
Is a Park Tools (or similar) chain cleaner/scrubber standard workshop equipment for people on here or do you clean your chain as I've done for years - ie, removing it, soaking in degreaser, washing, drying and lubing?

I'm considering buying a chain cleaner but looking for opinions before I do.

Apologies if this question has been asked loads of times, but I'm quite new here and still finding my way around.

Thanks, Glyn.

Comments

  • --Darren--
    --Darren-- Posts: 70
    lasts for years degreaser
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,356
    chain cleaners take off surface grime, but the degreaser/whatever will seep inside the rollers and displace lube, it will not dry out inside for quite a while, hardly what you want as lube

    imho removing and cleaning is better
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • PhunkyPhil
    PhunkyPhil Posts: 143
    I use a park took cleaner.

    Firstly I use a tea towel (not one of your wife's best) to grip the chain and pedal to get the really dirty grime off. Then I use the chain cleaner with a degreaser. I then dry the chain again with the tea towel gripping the chain and make sure it's nice a dry. I then use the chain cleaner again as you will be suprised how much better you will make it the second time.

    I am interested to hear what people do with their chain when they remove it to clean.
    http://veloviewer.com/SigImage.php?a=116373&r=3&c=5&u=M&g=p&f=abcdefghij&z=a.png
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Wipe it with a rag soaked in some GT85, comes up like new. Haven't used a purpose made chain cleaner in 20 years.
  • glyn496
    glyn496 Posts: 4
    My usual routine is to remove the chain and soak it for a while in a tub of white spirit, agitating occasionally. Next, I give the chain a wipe and a thorough rinsing with lots of water, wipe dry again then a good squirt of WD40.
    Finally, I wipe with kitchen paper towel and allow to completely dry before refitting to the bike and lubing.

    All this is fine in the summer in the garden but it's not something I'm looking forward to on a typically wet, freezing cold day in winter, and thought maybe a chain scrubber might make things quicker and easier.
  • munzy
    munzy Posts: 111
    This:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf80DnCgHRQ

    this

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/morgan-blue-chain-keeper/

    and this

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VIRO-SOL-Citr ... 4abe45f31f
  • fsman
    fsman Posts: 112
    +1 for Virosol. Just buy from your local janitor / window cleaning supplier.
    It is strong. So for chain cleaning you should dilute 1:10.

    For a "muc-off" type spray dilule 1:100
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    You shouldn't need to remove a chain to clean it, and those chain cleaners are fairly useless anyway. Run the chain through a rag soaked in GT, WD, or other solvent and then re-lube with the lube of your choice. Wipe over the chain regularly to keep the outside clean and dry - the inside will look after itself as long as it is kept reasonably well lubricated.
  • montyburns56
    montyburns56 Posts: 70
    Don't bother buying a chain cleaner as they are the sandwich toaster of the cycling world.
  • hostman
    hostman Posts: 104
    I recently bought a chain cleaner and have found it to be a waste of money. I can get a far better clean with a tooth brush, sure takes a little longer, but results are far better.

    Use enough degreaser and the muck will drop off easily.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Chain cleaners are good - but not as an only method. I find them great for commutes as, after a wet ride, I can run the chain through the cleaner and re oil in about two minutes. If I didn't have the chain cleaner, I suspect I would do nothing. Then, fairly regularly I take chain (and cassette) off and cook them a bit in degreaser, let them dry thoroughly and then re-oil. This still probably takes less than 15 minutes and the chain comes out really nice. I'll often clean the chainring teeth and jockey wheels as well - not much point in cleaning a chain and then running it through a dirty gear system.

    I can't imagine that wiping the chain with a cloth does anything at all exxcept make it look like you cleaned the chain!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Rolf F wrote:
    I can't imagine that wiping the chain with a cloth does anything at all exxcept make it look like you cleaned the chain!

    Then you'd be wrong, you could at least try it, then come back on and tell is it's not worked :?:

    I've been using this method for as long as I can remember, if you wipe the chain with a rag lightly soaked in a bit of GT85 it does a great job. My chain lasts as long as anyone else I know, it's quiet and looks clean. I'm meticulous about my bikes.

    Then again, some people, maybe not you, like to have their chain fester in crap and mud and clean it with a 'chain cleaner' once a month.
  • teisetrotter
    teisetrotter Posts: 342
    I bought a chain cleaner as I am lazy. It was useless and I spent hours getting the oil spray out of a newish winter top.

    Back to degreaser, a brush and a towel.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    dodgy wrote:
    I've been using this method for as long as I can remember, if you wipe the chain with a rag lightly soaked in a bit of GT85 it does a great job. My chain lasts as long as anyone else I know, it's quiet and looks clean. I'm meticulous about my bikes.

    Lot of variables though. IMO, a good 90% of drivetrain wear occurs between December and February (based on the lifespan of MTB drivetrain components on a bike that I rarely use except when the weather is at its nastiest). So, possibly that might imply that if you don't ride your bike through those months, then it might not even matter at all whether you clean your chain or not. Your high chain mileage might have nothing to do with your cleaning method just as mine also might not.

    I just see how much crap gets sprayed over the chain and tend to believe that since the critical wear in a chain is the pins, then assuming that you can get away with not trying to get the area inside the rollers cleaned seems optimisitc. But I could be wrong. It's happened before :lol:

    Know what you mean about meticulosity - I now only use new chains on my Look - once the original grease has been mucked up, the chain is cleaned and placed in the spares pile for the Ribble!

    As for leaving things to fester for a month - the whole point about a chain cleaner is that there's really no excuse for that sort of behaviour. If you can't spend two minutes running the chain through one of those after a wet ride then you shouldn't be allowed to own a bike!
    Teisetrotter wrote:
    I bought a chain cleaner as I am lazy. It was useless and I spent hours getting the oil spray out of a newish winter top..

    You're not supposed to lie under the bike whilst using the chain cleaner..........!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • mercia_man
    mercia_man Posts: 1,431
    Like several others who have posted above, I wipe the chain clean with a rag onto which I've sprayed a little GT85 or WD40. I then apply lube and wipe off excess. This has worked well for me for years and I've never felt the need to use a special machine.

    I know there are conflicting views but it's interesting to note that KMC advise people not to use aggressive degreasers as they are bad for the environment and remove the remaining grease from the chain's bearings. KMC also state: "Try to avoid so-called chain washing machines in combination with solvent. This will instantly ruin your chain."
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Mercia Man wrote:
    "Try to avoid so-called chain washing machines in combination with solvent. This will instantly ruin your chain."

    If ever there is a reason not to use a product it is the manufacturer saying that their product, made of metal, will be instantly ruined by a bit of solvent! :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • plowmar
    plowmar Posts: 1,032
    Like others I could never get away with a chain cleaner, so just use a muc off spray to clean whole of drivetrain then soap and water for rest of bike.

    I use the gt85 as a lube am I doing it wrong?
  • garyk72
    garyk72 Posts: 76
    dodgy wrote:
    Wipe it with a rag soaked in some GT85, comes up like new. Haven't used a purpose made chain cleaner in 20 years.

    ^^
    This.

    I have been reliably informed by a bike mechanic who has worked for at least 2 pro teams and GB cycling that you should never degrease a chain and simply wipe it off after every ride. Then lube the chain every couple of weeks or so, this should make the chain last a lot longer as you are not removing the lube from the inner workings of the links.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    garyk72 wrote:
    dodgy wrote:
    Wipe it with a rag soaked in some GT85, comes up like new. Haven't used a purpose made chain cleaner in 20 years.

    ^^
    This.

    I have been reliably informed by a bike mechanic who has worked for at least 2 pro teams and GB cycling that you should never degrease a chain and simply wipe it off after every ride. Then lube the chain every couple of weeks or so, this should make the chain last a lot longer as you are not removing the lube from the inner workings of the links.

    I'm 100% behind this way of doing it. I never remove my chain or use so called chain cleaners. Wipe with a rag and relube. Anything more is a waste of time and money.
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    GT85 and a rag will bring the sides of the chain up lovely, with a bit of work. But what about the inside face of the link plates? That is just as dirty and this is where the dirt held in oil film is just waiting to act as grinding paste on your cog teeth.

    I use a chain cleaning machine to clean the inside faces and the roller surfaces and then I remove the chain and dip it in a tub of decreaser before wiping clean and dying. Re lube the inner surfaces and refix the chain.

    Just wiping the outside clean may keep your calves cleaner but won't stop the dirt particles from grinding away your drive train.
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Bar Shaker wrote:
    Just wiping the outside clean may keep your calves cleaner but won't stop the dirt particles from grinding away your drive train.
    If this statement were even remotely true how is it that the bike I rode for years as a pre-teen and teen never had a chain break, never wore out a rear cog(single speed-coaster brake), and never wore the teeth off the "big" ring? On top of all that this bike saw pretty much zero maintenance, was used on pavement, dirt, and gravel roads, was left outside in all kinds of weather, was rode in the winter and exposed to salt on the roads, was rarely cleaned, and as near as I can remember never saw a drop of oil on the chain. Maybe my father squirted a drop or two of lube on it, but I don't recall that.

    On top of all that I seem to recall that the "old" bike had a chain that looked very much like today's chains. The "big" front ring had teeth on it pretty much like today's cranksets, and the rear cog very much had the same shape and teeth as today's cassettes.

    Now I know that you want to think that you are working on a precision piece of equipment and in some ways you are but the vast majority of a bicycles drive line is made up of technology that's way, way older than you are. Chains and gears are so old that I doubt the word technology was even around at the time they were invented.
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    dennisn wrote:
    If this statement were even remotely true how is it that the bike I rode for years as a pre-teen and teen never had a chain break, never wore out a rear cog(single speed-coaster brake), and never wore the teeth off the "big" ring? On top of all that this bike saw pretty much zero maintenance, was used on pavement, dirt, and gravel roads, was left outside in all kinds of weather, was rode in the winter and exposed to salt on the roads, was rarely cleaned, and as near as I can remember never saw a drop of oil on the chain. Maybe my father squirted a drop or two of lube on it, but I don't recall that.

    Kids bikes can't really be compared to DA, Red or Record equipped bikes of today. One of your old cranks would weigh more than one of today's entire groupsets. Your old cogs were probably 3 or 4 times as wide as your current bike's cogs. You had probably lost more material off them than you have to start with, on today's high performance groupsets.

    Would you treat a modern racing spec £2000 groupset in the same way that you describe above?
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Bar Shaker wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    If this statement were even remotely true how is it that the bike I rode for years as a pre-teen and teen never had a chain break, never wore out a rear cog(single speed-coaster brake), and never wore the teeth off the "big" ring? On top of all that this bike saw pretty much zero maintenance, was used on pavement, dirt, and gravel roads, was left outside in all kinds of weather, was rode in the winter and exposed to salt on the roads, was rarely cleaned, and as near as I can remember never saw a drop of oil on the chain. Maybe my father squirted a drop or two of lube on it, but I don't recall that.

    Kids bikes can't really be compared to DA, Red or Record equipped bikes of today. One of your old cranks would weigh more than one of today's entire groupsets. Your old cogs were probably 3 or 4 times as wide as your current bike's cogs. You had probably lost more material off them than you have to start with, on today's high performance groupsets.

    Would you treat a modern racing spec £2000 groupset in the same way that you describe above?

    Never said not to lube or clean your bike. Just making the comment that what you may think you're dealing with(a highly tech groupset) is not all that fragile and delicate. Nor is it all that high tech. This stuff has been around a long time.
    People may clean and lube their bikes as often as they like and use any method they see fit. They are more than welcome to go out and buy this weeks hot new lube and spend all the money they want on various cleaning solutions, machines, and solvents. They may clean their chain before, during, and after each ride. I'm pretty sure that the chain, cogs, and rings will persevere despite neglect and over zealous, unnecessary cleaning.
  • SoSimple
    SoSimple Posts: 301
    montyburns56 wrote:
    Don't bother buying a chain cleaner as they are the sandwich toaster of the cycling world.

    He's right you know!

    Fortunately mine wasn't too expensive but Sandwich Toaster stuck in the back of e cupboard probably sums the thing up
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    SoSimple wrote:
    montyburns56 wrote:
    Don't bother buying a chain cleaner as they are the sandwich toaster of the cycling world.

    He's right you know!

    Fortunately mine wasn't too expensive but Sandwich Toaster stuck in the back of e cupboard probably sums the thing up

    No he isn't - as you can tell from this thread, plenty of us use chain cleaners on a regular basis whereas nobody has ever used a sandwich toaster for more than two weeks!

    Rofl at Dennisn comparing a childhood bikes drivetrain wear with the stuff we are using today! Even a top end 7 speed chain from a few years back, with no maintenance, will last immeasurably longer than a modern 10 speed chain with any of the maintenance programmes mentioned here - they are just far more over-engineered. And, of course, no matter how much we think we used a bike as a child, it was probably insignificant compared to a couple of months of riding today (at least in my case - I probably do in a couple of months, or little more, as much riding as I did throughout my childhood).
    Faster than a tent.......
  • jordan_217
    jordan_217 Posts: 2,580
    Get some of this and follow the instructions on the bottle:

    http://www.tweekscycles.com/Product.do? ... tAodDGQAvw

    I've been using this for 2-3 years, in all conditions and think it's good stuff.
    “Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”
  • mathematics
    mathematics Posts: 453
    Anyone know where I can get one of those long brushes the guys using in the vid?

    Is scrubbing your chain with a brush and soap bad?

    Should you use soap on your bike, or is it only special soaps?

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