Friends and Family Fear

TheShrew2000

Hi folks,

As I have been building up my mileage on the bike I have been wanting to get to the point where I can successfully commute to work. My office is a mere 36 miles of country lanes away from the house and mostly flat. I intend to try this out for the first time tomorrow. I have put in training where I can and prepared myself as well as possible but have come upon one of the greatest stumbling blocks of all... Everybody I know thinks of cycling as a dangerous thing to do.

I know that being on the road comes with significant risks, especially for the newer rider, but is it really so bad? I went out with family and friends last night and they talked to me as if I had just signed my own death warrant. Do other people out there get the same problem? If so how do you deal with it? Is this fear ingrained within society and holding back cycling as a sport?

Cheers,
Dave

poweredbyidris

Hi Dave

It's not as bad as your family and friends think as all they see in the news is 'cyclist knocked off bike today', rather than '50,000 cyclists commuted to work without any problems at all'

There is danger, but it can be mitigated by being safety-concious at all times, making sure you're seen and assuming that everyone else on the road is about to do something stupid and therefore riding accordingly.

ugo.santalucia

trust yourself only... if you see your commute as dangerous, then don't do it... but if you have been on these roads and seem fine to you, then they probably are.People who don't cycle tend to see cycling as a very dangerous activity, when it is not, really...

foggybike

I have the same problem.

My wife's dad was knocked off his bike, before I started road cycling. Then in June this year I got knocked off!!!

I have people telling me all the time it's dangerous, but then again so is crossing the road, etc, etc.

I did think about going back to Mountain biking after being knocked off but bit the bullet and got another road bike. It has knocked my confidence on the road and I now tend to go out a the quietest times and try to get finished before it gets busy. But once I'm out on the bike I don't really think about it.

I now do as much as I can to be seen. Bright clothing, lights in the day, etc.

But I know my wife is still not happy about me going out

neal1984

PoweredByIdris wrote:

Hi Dave

It's not as bad as your family and friends think as all they see in the news is 'cyclist knocked off bike today', rather than '50,000 cyclists commuted to work without any problems at all'

There is danger, but it can be mitigated by being safety-concious at all times, making sure you're seen and assuming that everyone else on the road is about to do something stupid and therefore riding accordingly.

+1 this is good advice.

Bozman

You just don't think about anything happening and stay positive, you do tend to gain an extra sense when you use two wheels but sometimes there's nothing you can do about it.
The wife doesn't stop me going out and I've got an horrendous history on two wheels, one big crash on a motorbike and several on a bicycle but I've yet to be at fault. You just get up and get on with it, if you thought about what could happen all the time you'd never do anything.

mpatts

My other half worries - I bought MVP on mapmyride, and it has a 'track'' option - she can see where I am on rides now. Helps.

ianwilliams

In 'Thinking, Fast and Slow' by Daniel Kahnemann, there's a great chapter where he talks about how people often answer a question different to the one they've been asked.

For instance:

Question asked: How often do cyclists get hit by car?
Question answered: How easily can I recall a cyclist getting hit by a car?

Different questions, but we often take the answer to the latter as an answer to the first.

Cycling isn't super safe, but nothing is. What is more damaging is the perception of cycling as unsafe, which we fuel ourselves by writing about it, reading stories about it online, and posting in forums. I think we'd feel more confident if we didn't spend forever reading about what could go wrong.

So be aware, be cautious. And don't be afraid to get off and walk if a particular stretch appears dangerous, or you don't feel confident. If you use your head you should be fine.

You can also take free city cycling courses from many councils/public transport authorities - I did these earlier this year and found them immensely helpful. Really, most people on the roads just want to get safely from A to B.

foggybike

mpatts wrote:

My other half worries - I bought MVP on mapmyride, and it has a 'track'' option - she can see where I am on rides now. Helps.

+1 Yep I have done this as well. A bit of reassurance!

Schoie81

I have a bit of this too, particularly from my Dad who says i'm stupid cycling on the roads and that they are just not safe. This comes from the fact that he's a lorry driver - so no doubt see a lot of stupid drivers doing a lot of stupid things, and more so from the fact that his cousin's son was killed when he got knocked off his bike right outside our house many many years ago.

However, people get killed every day driving a car, but you don't hear many people saying you shouldn't drive. As others have said, the number of people who get on a bike, go out for a ride and get off again at the other end without incident, far outnumber those that have an accident. There is always that chance, you just have to do what you can to shift the odds in your favour!!

As others have said, make yourself overly visible and always try to assume that cars will do something you wouldn't expect them to do and act accordingly. If you're mainly on country lanes then your rides are similar to mine and you probably wont see too much traffic - just watch out for drivers who seem to think that if there isn't a white line down the middle of the road, that means you don't have to keep to the left - and those that think there will never be anyone coming the other way as they go round corners on the wrong side of the road.

chrisaonabike

Bozman wrote:

You just don't think about anything happening and stay positive, you do tend to gain an extra sense when you use two wheels but sometimes there's nothing you can do about it.
The wife doesn't stop me going out and I've got an horrendous history on two wheels, one big crash on a motorbike and several on a bicycle but I've yet to be at fault.

Personally I've never been able to subscribe to this sort of fatalism. Although I agree to some extent, reading this does leave me wondering if the fatalistic attitude leads to more risk-taking and less being careful, hence the increased likelihood of the horrendous history mentioned.

Mostly I imagine I have total control over whether I live or die, and plan and act accordingly.

So I'm not as impulsive as some (although I do some things that others think of as risky - not without careful planning and comprehensive understanding of the risks and how to manage them), but I tend to take the view that I can hugely reduce my own risk by attempting to avoid even the situations where it would be someone else's fault.

I realise in an academic sense that I probably can't control as much as I imagine, but there it is

Tjgoodhew

I get this mainly from my OH sister. She always gives me a lecture about how dangerous it is and do i wear a helmet and i should avoid main roads etc....

I havent had any sort of accident yet but im guessing i will do at some point in the future. But its a risk i am prepared to take and the enjoyment i get out of riding far outweighs any possible danger

The reason i started cycling was because of injury playing football and in the 9 months i have been riding with at least one ride a week i havent been hurt or injured in any capacity other than the odd ache and occasional sore bum.

Playing football caused me to break bones galore, ruptured ligaments, pulled muscles, time off work not being able to walk, trips to A&E, concussions. I could go on

So from my personal experience cycling is actually safer and less dangerous to my health than football.

Nobody ever told me to be careful when playing football.................

CiB

It's not dangerous, or there would be similar numbers of cyclists being killed every year as there are drivers - a few thousand instead of the 110 or so that do happen, and the majority of those are in urban environments. 36 miles must give you a few alternative routes that you could use to work out which is the safest route, but if it's worth anything I do 21 each way and use either main road + through town and a bit of dual c/way, or do it all on country lanes, and there's zero difference in my sense of danger, it's a non event based on doing it for the last 7 years and not yet having an incident worth bothering with. Add to that a few years of biking 6 miles across a busy town and before that doing 10 miles down the Nottingham ring road for a year or two, and my conclusion is that as long as you don't do anything stupid, pay attention and ride properly you'll be ok.

Buy a copy of Bikeability by John Franklyn and be guided by that, and make it known to friends & family that you're riding sensibly acc to its guidance. And be visible. That's the best thing you can do.

secretsam

Use it as an excuse to buy loads of bling safety gear - lights, etc!

Alternatively, there's plenty of stats out there about how cycling improves health and promotes long life, therefore offer evidence that not cycling puts you at increased risk of cardiac disease, etc.

Plus, as others have pointed out - it's mostly in cities that cyclists get totalled, not on quiet roads. But you need to be careful, as cars can travel at insane speeds in the sticks - but if you're on quiet country roads, the risks should be small.

Mind you, 36 miles?!?!?!? Each way?!?!?!?!?

rolf_f

CiB wrote:

Add to that a few years of biking 6 miles across a busy town and before that doing 10 miles down the Nottingham ring road for a year or two, and my conclusion is that as long as you don't do anything stupid, pay attention and ride properly you'll be ok.

The voice of good fortune and optimism unfortunately. There is a degree of risk in cycling - no matter how careful you are you can't control other users. The only way I'd have stopped my Smidsy earlier this year would be to pull in and stop every time I was approached by a slow moving car in the vicinity of a turning to my left. The point is not that cycling isn't dangerous (it is) but that the risks of doing it are less than the risks of not doing it (ie cycling may be dangerous but it is a damn site less dangerous in the long term than being a couch potato).

Schoie81

Something else I'd add - I am quite a nervous cyclist - if I could find traffic free roads, I'd be on them, but its a necessary evil. That said, every time I go out, I worry about coming off the bike and how badly injured I could get, but that is a worry based on my doing something stupid or losing it on a corner or something - I don't think I've ever worried about getting knocked off by someone.

There's always a chance you'll have an accident driving a car (although obviously the car around you gives you more protection) but I don't ever get in the car and think "I wonder if I'll make it to my destination today without having an accident".

I guess every time you get back from a ride without incident, your family's fears will subside a little.

ben@31

As SecretSam kind of pointed out. If your friends and family see you using high vis clothing it may help lower their fear. You don't have to look like a council worker in a bib, you can get some pretty cool looking jerseys and rucksacks in a more eyecatching colour rather than dressing all in black.
On a dull overcast day or if its close to sunset I even use my bikelights. I've gone for the brightest lights I've seen.
One busy roundabout near me at rush hour was a constant flow of traffic, I did not fancy my chances entering the stream of constant traffic doing 40mph and turning off, so I dismounted my bike and walked across the pedestrian crossing and got back on the bike at the other side. Sometimes I've planned routes to avoid busy junctions, even if it means a detour and a few more km.

meursault

ianwilliams wrote:

In 'Thinking, Fast and Slow' by Daniel Kahnemann, there's a great chapter where he talks about how people often answer a question different to the one they've been asked.

For instance:

Question asked: How often do cyclists get hit by car?
Question answered: How easily can I recall a cyclist getting hit by a car?

Different questions, but we often take the answer to the latter as an answer to the first.

Cycling isn't super safe, but nothing is. What is more damaging is the perception of cycling as unsafe, which we fuel ourselves by writing about it, reading stories about it online, and posting in forums. I think we'd feel more confident if we didn't spend forever reading about what could go wrong.

So be aware, be cautious. And don't be afraid to get off and walk if a particular stretch appears dangerous, or you don't feel confident. If you use your head you should be fine.

You can also take free city cycling courses from many councils/public transport authorities - I did these earlier this year and found them immensely helpful. Really, most people on the roads just want to get safely from A to B.

+1 for this book, excellent for all things in life, not just cycling.

slowbike

ben@31 wrote:

As SecretSam kind of pointed out. If your friends and family see you using high vis clothing it may help lower their fear. You don't have to look like a council worker in a bib, you can get some pretty cool looking jerseys and rucksacks in a more eyecatching colour rather than dressing all in black.
On a dull overcast day or if its close to sunset I even use my bikelights. I've gone for the brightest lights I've seen.
One busy roundabout near me at rush hour was a constant flow of traffic, I did not fancy my chances entering the stream of constant traffic doing 40mph and turning off, so I dismounted my bike and walked across the pedestrian crossing and got back on the bike at the other side. Sometimes I've planned routes to avoid busy junctions, even if it means a detour and a few more km.

+1 for the light(s) and planning your ride carefully. My rear light was on this morning ... I'll have to sort out the second rear light soon.

You might be in the right, but that doesn't help when you're squashed under a vehicle!

In 2 years of commuting I've had 3 notable near misses (ie - the ones I can remember) and multiple close passes. Considering that the 3 notable ones were large vehicles - one tractor, one bus, one HGV I don't think I've done so bad. These were all on the country A road - the tractor was the A road through town and may have been done deliberately.

I think a lot of your riding luck also depends on how you take the road - ride timidly and (IMHO) ppl will pass close. Ride confidently and take the road/lane when you need to - but don't forget to say thank you to any vehicles that had to wait - and you'll be better off - mostly....

TheShrew2000

Thanks for all the replies guys. Its good to hear the other side of the argument. Though I do take the advice from friends and family very seriously, the likeliness is that nothing bad will happen as long as I take precautions where possible. I have a nice high vis top, bike lights and wouldn't dream of going out without a helmet and phone. I wouldn't think it right to give up on my newish hobby of cycling because of other peoples fear for me (good though it is to have people to worry about you)

I think the folks that say after a few rides peoples concerns will subside are right. Its a long way to go at 36miles each way and I don't intend on doing this too regularly. I just have to prove to myself that it is possible and its a good way of getting training time into my work schedule.

Does anybody know about a tracker app that works on windows phone? That would certainly help me out.

Dave

Mikey23

Similar odds to winning the national lottery I would suspect... Good luck with your commute tomorrow

philwint

I won't say there is no risk. But it's not something I'd ever worry about.

I bet we could find statistics to say that you stand more chance of being hurt driving along a motorway than cycling through town.

Or that the risk of being hurt cycling is less than the risk of health issues from not cycling

People always fear what they don't understand. People tend to buy into hyperbole and fear mongering stirred up by the media. As a result of that we are turning into a massively risk averse society. and I think that is far more worrying than the tiny possibility of getting hurt while cycling. I seriously saw a toddler being taken for a walk the other day in a hi viz gillet, a cycle helmet and one of those toddle lead things..... that poor kid is going to grow up afraid of his own shadow.

Risk and danger should be embraced and enjoyed as life affirming wonders

The world has gone mad if people are telling you not to cycle!!

(and in nearly 20 years of cycling I have had one near miss on the road... and a damn site more in my car!)

stueys

Cycling isn't safe, but then again very little is. I was a tad nervous when I started, the things that have made me feel safer are;
1. Be aware of the environment you're riding in. If the sun is directly in your eyes and its hard to see, guess what, you're probably aren't safe.
2. At busy times or grey days I always run a flashing light front and back
3. Be assertive, when I first started I used to hog the curb, this tends to make things worse. Leave yourself room to move left and take the lane at junctions, pinch points, etc, etc
4. Make eye contact with drivers at junctions. If I've got a car on my left pulling out or on the right coming across then I tend to slow down if I can't make eye contact with the driver. Doesn't do much for your average speed but then again neither would being knocked off....
5. I'm not too gung ho about slipstreaming through traffic, happy to do if there is good space but I find car drivers tend to lower their awareness when the speed drops. My mate absolutely hammers through without any issues though so I'm probably being a p**sy here ;-)

ben@31

TheShrew2000 wrote:

Does anybody know about a tracker app that works on windows phone? That would certainly help me out.

Dave

Endomondo is an amazing one I use. It will show a live feed on the internet of where you currently are and a track of where you have been on a map or satellite photo.

It can be used for any sport and has tons of features and every stat imaginable. It will also import additional info from a Garmin for HRM, cadence, etc. I find Endomondo useful for keeping a diary of my swimming, cycling and running. Can also compare routes with friends on there too. One unusal but interesting feature is it will show people who are out right now anywhere and everywhere in the world, right now as I type this theres some guy called Ronald running around a park in Lima, Peru.

Bozman

It looks like there are folk out there that should think twice about riding a bike if you carry such fear with you, it's just a bike and you're riding that bike in this country not some war torn state.

dazza12

I used to cycle everywhere up until around 13 years ago when I started working away a lot. I was very confident and a lot of time the risks didn't even bother me. The only time I'd get a bit wary was if a large truck was behind me - one story about a friend of a friend who came to a messy end under the back wheels of an articulated truck puts the fear into me if one is close to me - I'll often get off and walk if I see such a situation occurring. Added to that, seeing a motorcyclist getting wiped out right in front of me by a gravel truck didn't help matters. I live in Yeovil, and if you've ever cycled the routes around South Somerset, you'll know what the lanes are like around here.

I took up cycling again 2 weeks ago, and for the first few days I was worrying about traffic. There are a couple of roads on my commute where people are concentrating more on making sure the traffic in the opposite direction are giving way that I'm convinced that they've not seem me. However, during this week the fear seems to have subsided - but the truck thing I think will never go away.

I've sensed that my wife was fearful of my commute - it's only 1.6 miles so nothing too far. However, I think as I've got fitter and more confident, she appears to be worrying less. I think your friends and family will start to lay off after a few weeks. If they don't, it's more of a reflection on how they see cyclists when they're behind the wheel.

socistep

Lots of good advice here, I don't feel my commute is unsafe but I am constantly analysing potential danger and anticipating cars pulling out etc., 99% they don't but its to reduce the impact of that 1% - there are a couple of pinch points but mostly its a good ride - there is one part on one route where a girl I went to school with (from cumbria initially and now in Leeds) was killed by a left turning HGV, I always check right a couple of times when going past that road

http://www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/news/tr ... p_1_595274

andrewjoseph

Tjgoodhew wrote:

...
Playing football caused me to break bones galore, ruptured ligaments, pulled muscles, time off work not being able to walk, trips to A&E, concussions. I could go on
.........

You're not doing your cycling right!

Done all those things on road and mtb, not been injured by any incident involving other road users though.

TheShrew2000

Thanks guys, some more good advice. Everybody out there must know someone who has a horror story about road cycling. In many ways its a good thing because it keeps you focused out there. Maybe when I have my own collection of stories I'll be better qualified to reply to other peoples fears.

I managed to make it through my commute this morning without getting flattened or knocked off (I was also surprised at how flat Cheshire is, shame about the Stoke section). Hopefully with each successful ride the people that worry will be less troubled. I would actually like to commute by bike more often for the twin benefit of saving about £10 fuel on each ride and keeping fit in the process.

When I get the chance I'll give endomondo a try. I played with it earlier but couldn't work out how the tracking functioned. Looking at the app reviews, it seems to be perfect for what I'm after.

Dave

Kieran_Burns

Schoie81 wrote:

<snip>

However, people get killed every day driving a car, but you don't hear many people saying you shouldn't drive. As others have said, the number of people who get on a bike, go out for a ride and get off again at the other end without incident, far outnumber those that have an accident. There is always that chance, you just have to do what you can to shift the odds in your favour!!

<snip>.

Paraphrasing the Hunger Games doesn't really help...

There have been lots of good things said on this thread but the most relevant to your original point is that some people fear the unknown and this is why your family worry. The only answer to their problem is education of what cycling is like, and that means getting them out on a bike.

markhewitt1978

I use Endomondo for all my tracking, although I upload the resulting GPX to Strava too.