Syria
Comments
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. Assad is a sh1tbag but if he were deposed tomorrow who/what sort of regime would replace him?
Well d'uh. Obviously a nice moderate president presiding over a fairly elected democratic government with a permanent end to civil war and terrorism. That's what usually happens isn't it?!!
That's our perceived notion of what they want/will work. We had a utopian idea of "free and democratic elections...blah bullsh1t blah... for the people of Iraq..." once we deposed Hussein.
The whole moral ethic of the West assumes some sort of superiority in that we have 'democracy' and with it the freedom of unfettered materialism/consumerism and obviously, that's what other peoples want. It's the Christian's of New World vs the Old World and their inherent religions coupled with our historical interference.
A can of worms we drew up and now want to take the lid off.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I think the problem is that the lid is already off, and we don't know what to do with the worms.. Assad is a sh1tbag but if he were deposed tomorrow who/what sort of regime would replace him?
Well d'uh. Obviously a nice moderate president presiding over a fairly elected democratic government with a permanent end to civil war and terrorism. That's what usually happens isn't it?!!
That's our perceived notion of what they want/will work. We had a utopian idea of "free and democratic elections...blah bullsh1t blah... for the people of Iraq..." once we deposed Hussein.
The whole moral ethic of the West assumes some sort of superiority in that we have 'democracy' and with it the freedom of unfettered materialism/consumerism and obviously, that's what other peoples want. It's the Christian's of New World vs the Old World and their inherent religions coupled with our historical interference.
A can of worms we drew up and now want to take the lid off.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
. Assad is a sh1tbag but if he were deposed tomorrow who/what sort of regime would replace him?
Well d'uh. Obviously a nice moderate president presiding over a fairly elected democratic government with a permanent end to civil war and terrorism. That's what usually happens isn't it?!!
Well that all worked out perfectly for Libya, Iraq and Egypt then didn't it?
Democracy and the Middle East doesn't seem to work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisian_presidential_election,_20140 -
Tunisia has only been a democracy for a few years so still early days. There is a large Islamic party so we'll see what happens to things like womens rights which were relatively well protected during the period of effective dictatorship.
The conservative interpretation of Islam that appears to be gaining ground is really at odds with democracy if you accept that democracy includes notions of freedom and minority rights to prevent it being tyranny of the majority.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Tunisia has only been a democracy for a few years so still early days. There is a large Islamic party so we'll see what happens to things like womens rights which were relatively well protected during the period of effective dictatorship.
The conservative interpretation of Islam that appears to be gaining ground is really at odds with democracy if you accept that democracy includes notions of freedom and minority rights to prevent it being tyranny of the majority.
Weak state institutions can't handle democracy. That's nothing to do with religion but with the socio economic history of the place.
It might be more accurate to say 'nations that were born out of dominant racist colonialism rarely have a strong enough state to handle a democratic institution', but then that'd be blaming the UK, and we wouldn't want to do that no would we? Few exceptions (South Africa?) but not many...
And those former colonies who do well now didn't do so well for the locals, who were largely wiped out..! (Aus, US etc).0 -
It's stretching it a bit to blame the UK for anything to do with Tunisia. We could look at the role of France, we could go back to the Ottoman Empire or beyond but however interesting it doesn't change the situation on the ground now.
To deny the role of ideology in political change seems to me to be taking a limited view. Conservative Islam is an ideology with great relevance to that region. Obviously it isn't a movement that is taking place in isolation and the social and economic situation will impact on the spread of ideas but it's a two way process and if there is a belief system at odds with Western ideas of democracy it's inevitably going to be harder for that kind of democracy to establish itself.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Most commentators that deem to offer a "solution" fail to see the elephant in the room - i.e. RELIGION. This is a dispute between Islamic (Middle East) and Christian (West - predominately American) ideologies as to whose magic man in the sky is more valid.
If you take them out of the equation, the people left are just trying to get on with their lives rather than hating the other side.
a) choosing what you believe in spiritually is a human right
b) how would you propose a "solution" to your so called "problem" ?
a) I choose not to be oppressed/mutilated/murdered by folk that believe in a magic man in the sky - that's not a human right that's just common sense.
b) educate folk that their belief in the magic man in the sky does not give them the right to take the higher moral ground.
P.S It's not a "so called problem" - Religion/blind faith/extremism is costing humanity more suffering than any fantasy hell ever will.0 -
"Religion/blind faith/extremism is costing humanity more suffering than any fantasy hell ever will."
Interesting ironical point.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
P.S It's not a "so called problem" - Religion/blind faith/extremism is costing humanity more suffering than any fantasy hell ever will.
No - It is just the extremist element. Your solution is effectively like banning alcohol because there are alcoholics.www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
a) choosing what you believe in spiritually is a human right
b) how would you propose a "solution" to your so called "problem" ?
a) I choose not to be oppressed/mutilated/murdered by folk that believe in a magic man in the sky - that's not a human right that's just common sense.
b) educate folk that their belief in the magic man in the sky does not give them the right to take the higher moral ground.
P.S It's not a "so called problem" - Religion/blind faith/extremism is costing humanity more suffering than any fantasy hell ever will.
You cannot educate to stop people believing in a higher authority, it not like teaching people to cross the road.
The reason we have the wars in Syria/Iraq/Afganistan etc etc are down to ill conceived invasions and bombings by western powers ie US/UK governements.
dictators were removed, nothing replaced them and chaos now reigns...
i wouldnt have thought any fantasy hell would hurt anyone :roll:0 -
That has been proposed.P.S It's not a "so called problem" - Religion/blind faith/extremism is costing humanity more suffering than any fantasy hell ever will.
No - It is just the extremist element. Your solution is effectively like banning alcohol because there are alcoholics.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
That has been proposed.P.S It's not a "so called problem" - Religion/blind faith/extremism is costing humanity more suffering than any fantasy hell ever will.
No - It is just the extremist element. Your solution is effectively like banning alcohol because there are alcoholics.
and rejectedwww.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
In wednesday's PMQs at Westminster, David CaMoron was responding to a question related to this topic referring to the West's intervention in the region. He blabbered something along the lines of, 'would Libya be better with Gaddafi still in power?...would Iraq be better with Saddam still in power?
You may have your own thoughts about the answer. But I know that like it or not the middle east region seems to run quite well under a dictatorial regimes. It seems to be the only way to control the extremism and tribalism that has existed for centuries.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
a) choosing what you believe in spiritually is a human right
b) how would you propose a "solution" to your so called "problem" ?
a) I choose not to be oppressed/mutilated/murdered by folk that believe in a magic man in the sky - that's not a human right that's just common sense.
b) educate folk that their belief in the magic man in the sky does not give them the right to take the higher moral ground.
P.S It's not a "so called problem" - Religion/blind faith/extremism is costing humanity more suffering than any fantasy hell ever will.
i wouldnt have thought any fantasy hell would hurt anyone :roll:
Exactly, there is no hell or any rational evidence to support it - Whereas the very real brainwashing of the impressionable youngsters in our world in the name of religion is causing mayhem. Politicians, dictators and all sorts of other scammers thrive on the fact that pandering to the demands of the religious will enhance their own popularity.
With reference to the previous posts regarding alcohol - I think that membership of any magic man in the sky groups should be banned until the person that wishes to join is at least18 (maybe even higher given the potential harm it can cause) -in line with other widely accepted dubious influences.0 -
Outlawing anything tends to do the opposite of what was intended. Unfortunately, many of those under 18's you want to protect are in families that do practice one faith or another.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
