Shimano: can 10-speed become 11-speed easily??

targa_man
targa_man Posts: 27
edited August 2013 in Workshop
Forget the wheels (& chain) - I have a set of wheels on which I can run both 10 & 11 speed cassettes, but if I could run my bike as 11-speed then the wheels would be interchangeable with my other bike without changing cassettes each time I swap the wheels. So the question is: Which bits of the groupset do I need to replace so that my Shimano Ultegra 10-speed becomes Ultegra 11-speed?

1. Do I just require a new shifter for the rear mech?
2. Or do I need the shifter plus a new rear derailleur?

(I'm assuming the front shifter & front mech is fine with either 10 or 11 speed)

Comments

  • night_porter
    night_porter Posts: 888
    Assuming the 10 speed cassette has the same width as the 11 speed cassette then by simple deduction the 11 speed chain will be narrower. That means that the rear mech will need to accept a narrower chain, no problem there then. The same should go for the front mech and chainrings. If it was the other way around you might have problems though.

    I would just buy some new shifters an see how that goes, if you hvae problems setting it up then see what you need to add depending on what problems you are getting.

    My experience is with 9 and 10 speed but it should work the same for 10 and 11 speed too!
  • turnerjohn
    turnerjohn Posts: 1,069
    all new I'm affraid...10speed is a different pull length to 11speed. Hubs the most annoying thing (typical Shimano !) although you got that base covered !
  • targa_man
    targa_man Posts: 27
    ......what do you mean by "pull length" ?
  • turnerjohn
    turnerjohn Posts: 1,069
    targa_man wrote:
    ......what do you mean by "pull length" ?

    shifter pulls / releases the cable at a given distance, the mech responds by moving the chain by the amount needed to chain from one cog to the other (or multiple shifts if asked) 11speed cassettes are differently spaced but the mechs / shifters aren't compatable as 11speed pulls the cable a different amount to 10 speed - bit like SRAM which use a 1:1 ratio whereas Shimano (used) a 1:2 ratio. Mechs are designed with different parallelagram movements to account for longer pull rate - should give better shifting
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    This is where electronic shifting will become standard in the future. All you would need is a software update
  • turnerjohn
    turnerjohn Posts: 1,069
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    This is where electronic shifting will become standard in the future. All you would need is a software update

    In that case can you upgrade original shimano electric 10speed to new 11speed ?
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    The current Ultegra Di2 and the Dura-Ace can. As far as older DA, it depends whether or not Shimano built in that capability to flash the software. I can't comment on Camapagnolo as I haven't looked into it. I would think that they would but its a guess.
  • turnerjohn
    turnerjohn Posts: 1,069
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    The current Ultegra Di2 and the Dura-Ace can. As far as older DA, it depends whether or not Shimano built in that capability to flash the software. I can't comment on Camapagnolo as I haven't looked into it. I would think that they would but its a guess.

    But then both current Di2 are 11speed and as the cable ones aren't comparable I'd put money on shimano making 11speed Di2 incomparable with Di2. It's a great idea but companies want you to buy their latest products so deliberately make them different...shimano have done it since they started !
  • smoggysteve
    smoggysteve Posts: 2,909
    The old 10 speed was shown to be convertable to 11 albeit with a hack of the software. Not an official shimano update
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    SmoggySteve wrote:
    All you would need is a software update

    = the most depressing comment of the day so far..... :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    It does not seem possible to "hack" 10sp di2 to 11sp, certainly thats the answer on WW forum.

    On club ride this morning, a girl had 11sp shifters, rotor chainset, with 11sp FD, 11sp RD and cassette - this is the minimum she needed to get 11sp working fine inc cables and chain - her BF is a bike mech and got all the bits from demo bikes and cosmetic warranty claims - FD needed because of cable pull issues with 10sp FD.

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