Self build or wimp out and use LBS

kjab

Hi all,

Right, I'm a complete noob at building a bike, but for some reason find myself with some components for a build (CR1 SL, 6770 di2, kysrium elite's) and am now dithering as to whether to learn how to put it together myself or wimp out and get an LBS to do it. Should I;

a) do it myself, get a basic toolkit but still need a LBS for headset and bb press

b) get an LBS to do it (anyone recommend one around Cambridge?)

or alternatively (and maybe a bit cheekily) c) is there anyone around the Cambridge area who has a free half day one weekend who fancies a few beers and a BBQ on me whilst teaching me a bit of bike maintenance

Beyond a basic kit like http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/TOJ ... __18_piece or http://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-too ... 72672.html - is there anything else I need? torque wrench, headset/bb press etc? Which of the kits would you recommend?

Cheers

Neil

thistle_

If you've got plenty of spare time then do it yourself. You'll learn how it all fits together and you'll be able to do more maintenance work yourself. There's videos on the internet showing you how to do pretty much everything, it might just take you longer to do it than someone who has done it before.

You can get cheap bearing presses off eBay. When I say cheap, it's 2 nylon/steel plates and a bit of threaded bar with nuts on the end....
It does the job but you have to be careful that it goes in straight.

A workstand might be useful. The Lidl ones will be sufficient but I don't think they have them in at the moment.

Those toolkits look OK.
If you've got square taper or Octolink cranks/bottom bracket, I'm not sure if either of them include a 10mm allen key for attaching cranks or a bottom bracket removal tool. The pictures suggest they do but I'm not sure what they are on the list of what you get.
The Planet X kit includes the preload tool for external (Hollowtech 2) bottom brackets, not sure if the other kit has this.

A lot of the stuff you won't need until you need to do major maintenance (e.g. spoke key, cone spanners) but they are worth having.

You will probably also need a pair of cable cutters for the gear/brake cable and outers.

schweiz

Do it yourself, but give yourself enough time to do it and if it's taking longer than planned then don't try and rush. Think everything though and remember 'measure twice, cut once!' If you have another bike, use it for reference with things like cable outer length. If you're still unsure, cut longer!

I used a similar kit to the kits you've linked to and they are perfectly adequate. I would maybe look at getting a good set of allen keys though (some prefer T-Handle, but I prefer L shaped keys with a ball on the long end) and some good quality screwdrivers.

It's not absolutely necessary but a torque wrench similar to the Sealey STW1012 i.e. 2-24 Nm will stop any mishaps. Remember that less then 10Nm is not much in terms of force when you're using a a 20-odd cm lever arm so gently does it, even with the torque wrench. It's easy to miss the 'click'. You'll need some sockets and hex keys too.

Remember that recommended torque values are maximum values. Using carbon assembly paste means that 60-70% of the max recommended torque should be sufficient for seat posts, stems etc.

The 40Nm for the cassette and BB is a good 'man tight' but shouldn't be too much. Just do pedals up hand tight, they will tighten themselves with use. Avoid assembling 'dry' and use grease or anti-sieze (e.g. copaslip) as appropriate.

I don't bother with a crown race setting tool (the LBS does that for contribution to the tip jar) and I've only ever had to press a BB30 to HT2 adapter into a frame which I got my dad to do at work (he's a tool maker so was able to turn some parts to attach to the bench press in his workshop) but again your LBS can do that if needed.

The last thing is cutting the steerer tube. My dad made me a guide and I used a tungsten carbide hacksaw blade to cut it. I suppose you could use two jubilee clips as a guide. Either way, tape up the steerer with masking tape first to stop any splintering and use the full length of the saw and cut slowly to stop heat build up. Don't use a 'junior' hacksaw, use a full 300 mm one.

There's plenty of free info on the Park Tool website and http://techdocs.shimano.com or if you prefer a book, something like 'Zinn and the art of road bike maintenance' is a fairly useful reference.

Yossie

LBS for B/B (if you haven't the tool otherwise its just a pot of grease, the tool and some self confidence) and the headset (but only because you have to press it in) - the rest is merely bolting together like flat pack furniture: with no offence meant, its a bicycle not the space shuttle.

Back wheel, forks on, pop it on a stand (a turbo trainer will do) and very slowly bolt on bit by bit - prop another bike alongside if you need to see how everything goes/measuring up cable.

Set of allen keys, pot of moly, pot of copperslip, torque wrench, snips, 8, 10 & 12 mm spanners and screwdrivers are all you really need.

Any probs, post on here/Park Tools website will see you straight.

Everyone is nervous at first but once you've done one you wonder what you were worried about.

redvee

My last build was done in the kitchen cum living room and the LBS saw the frame twice, once to install the headset and again to close up 1/8" gap on one of the cups, the wheels went there to be tensioned too, everyhing else was done by my fair but dirty hands.

brearley

As others have said build it yourself, however nobody has realised your plan to use Ultegra Di2,
This is very ambitious for a first build by yourself, I've not worked on it myself so am unable to comment on how complex it is to set up but I imagine a small amount of electrical knowledge is required.
As for the headset unless it's an external type headset I've never seen the need for a headset press.
Getting the crown race on is the only small part which needs a bit of help but as it is a split ring it can be easily slipped on. Once the steerer is cut and the stem on as you tighten the top cap everything should press together nicely.
Don't forget the circlips in your bottom bracket if installing yourself.
Personally building bikes is one of the things I enjoy most, having previously worked in two bike shops they've been the most fun jobs I've ever had.

GiantMike

I've built a few bikes now and it's simpler than you'd think. I installed a head set using a hammer and a piece of wood - works well but you have to make sure it goes in straight.

Everything else is just like Lego but you need to make sure nothing is too tight (especially with carbon) or too loose. The basics of bolting everything together is very quick, the fettling, cabling and adjusting takes time to get right though. I put the chain on last and I use a quick link for simplicity and so I can remove the chain easily if I really need to.

For the steerer tube, I cut it down to what I think I need plus 1", and then ride it a couple of times to make sure before cutting it down to the right length. I just use a normal hacksaw, but I do it outside to keep the carbon dust out of the house.

I haven't used Di2, but I'd imagine that after the cabling, the setting up would be fairly simple.

giant_man

go for a), you will learn a lot and be proud with what you have achieved. you may need some support with Di2 though ..

keef66

I built my CR1-SL myself. Transferred all the kit over from my alu framed bike.

The frame came with a Shimano press-fit BB installed, so the 105 HT2 chainset just slid in.

Headset cups needed pressing into the head tube. I bought one of the cheapo Ebay 'headset press' type things for less than a fiver delivered. Threaded rod, nylon discs, steel washers and a couple of nuts. Do the cups one at a time and keep checking to make sure they are going in square. Bit of judicious tapping occasionally required to straighten them up.

Cutting the steerer was the only other slightly ticklish thing. I did it by eye using a fine blade in a junior hacksaw. Seemed pretty easy and the cut was clean with no loose fibres. Steerer seemed to need to be 5mm below the top of the stem (or upper spacer if fitted) in order to remove all the play from the headset.

The expander bung needs to be tightened up a bit so it's a snug fit when pushed into the steerer, otherwise it just spins when you try to tighten it properly with the allen key. It needs to be fitted flush with the top of the steerer, and according to Scott, a maximum of 5mm spacers above the stem (I have no spacers above the stem now)


Or if you wimp out I know a mobile mechanic who is just southeast of Cambridge...

Bozman

One day after spending years taking frames to my LBS to be built up I just went for it myself. I purchased a few basic tools and had a go, the only bit that troubled me was the thought of the chain but I bought a KMC one with a quick link, problem solved.
I've recently built a CR1 up too, I haven't got a press fit tool and needing the Shimano press fit swapped for a Sram I got the LBS to do it, £10 well spent and then I did the rest.
The LBS only charge £35 for a build so I sometimes wonder whether it's worth it, but I actually enjoy doing it now.

kjab

Thanks for all the tips all. I'll put everything out and see how it looks!

Any particular grease you would recommend or anything reasonable goes?

Cheers

GiantMike

Carbon bikes use a special carbon assembly paste/grease for posts, bars etc. It gives more traction. I don't use these, but some people do.

Lube the cable outers with 3-in-1 or similar before you put the inners through.

I can't think where else you'd want to use grease on a bike build. Everything should be lubricated already?

rolf_f

GiantMike wrote:

I haven't used Di2, but I'd imagine that after the cabling, the setting up would be fairly simple.

I can't quite work out why Di2 should be harder to install. Surely half the point is that it saves you all the stuff about getting the cable tensions and positioning correct on your own.

keef66

kjab wrote:

Thanks for all the tips all. I'll put everything out and see how it looks!

Any particular grease you would recommend or anything reasonable goes?

Cheers

You don't need any grease on the frame itself. In fact Scott insist that you don't. The headset cups are pressed in dry. The seatpost goes in dry unless it slips, in which case use some carbon assembly paste.
I generally apply a light smear of grease* to the spindle of the crankset before inserting it, and to the splines before attaching the non drive side crank. I also lightly grease any bolts I'm doing up (stem, brake calipers etc) and apply a smear of copperslip to the pedal threads before screwing them into the cranks.

* great big tub of something generic I've been using on bikes and cars for at least 20 years.

kjab

So...

Took it to LBS to get headset fitted. have brought it back and looking at it closely there is a small gap between the bottom of the frame and the form as in this pic. Also there is a tiny gap between the frame and ritchey spacer, although that is reducible with pressure on the spacers above.

Have they just done a bad job at it, and how to rectify?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ip70p0kfgdwf2 ... 850%29.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9fj00wagpip05 ... 851%29.JPG

thanks again!

kjab

are these bearings the right way up?

as far as I can see the crown is all the way down, and both cups are all the way in...?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lqvu3yt3efp6h ... 852%29.JPG

Cheers

edit: it looks like the gap is between the bearings and the crown...? any ideas?

jonathan2

Keef66 -How do you know Scott insist that grease is not used. I am ath the point of a build where I am about to press fit a headset into an Addict frame and have found 'unofficial' answers about whether or not grease should be used on the actual inside of the head tube. I have sent the question to Scott but not heard anything back. I have searched there 'manuals' etc...

wishitwasallflat

kjab wrote:

So...

Took it to LBS to get headset fitted. have brought it back and looking at it closely there is a small gap between the bottom of the frame and the form as in this pic. Also there is a tiny gap between the frame and ritchey spacer, although that is reducible with pressure on the spacers above.

Have they just done a bad job at it, and how to rectify?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ip70p0kfgdwf2 ... 850%29.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9fj00wagpip05 ... 851%29.JPG

thanks again!

I'd love to know the answer to this one as well - I got a new frame recently and the headset was like this at the top. I opened it up and it was because there were two thin plastic washers between the upper surface of the split ring and the lower surface of the dust cover. If I remove the washers it looks much better and seems to work fine but I am left wondering why were the washers there ? It looked like they were just creating a space between top of head tube/split ring and lower edge of dust cover which can't be good (and looks awful). Surely it just helps dirt/water get in to have a gap like that?

keef66

jonathan2 wrote:

Keef66 -How do you know Scott insist that grease is not used. I am ath the point of a build where I am about to press fit a headset into an Addict frame and have found 'unofficial' answers about whether or not grease should be used on the actual inside of the head tube. I have sent the question to Scott but not heard anything back. I have searched there 'manuals' etc...

Can't remember if it was in the paperwork that came with the frame or in some on-line manual I found. Either way I ignored it and used a light smear of grease when installing the headset cups. Nothing's disintegrated yet...

A carbon frame that can't tolerate a bit of grease would IMO be unfit for purpose

Pokerface

DI2 is far easier to install than mechanical cables - as long as you know what to do.

And by that I mean you just need to know which cables go where. If you've never done it before, easiest thing to do i lay all the wires and mechs/shifters on the floor and wore it up first before installing in the bike - and make sure it all works. Di2 cables are in different lengths, so you just have to make sure you get the rights ones going to the right parts.

I've built up most of my bikes at home and re-wired the DI2 stuff many times.

I still go to the LBS for special stuff like press-fit BBs.

desweller

I wouldn't personally use grease on an interference fit like a headset. The bore and shaft are unlikely to be perfectly matched, so you could get trapped pockets of oil, which will change volume with temperature and potentially could alter the position of the cup. I might be tempted to chill the cups before insertion to reduce the interference on installation.

I would use a light smear of silicone grease to protect my electrical connections from water ingress.