Best way to be seen

s1paulj

HI,
I'm fairly new to this cycling lark, but have got totally hooked in a very short time. I go out riding every morning before i start work.
I am finding that its getting darker in the mornings and although at 6:30 i don't need lights, (legally i don't need lights after 5:30 at the moment) i find myself thinking about how to make myself more visible to other road vehicles.
I tend to stick to very quiet back roads as i am lucky enough to live in rural Oxfordshire, but wanted to know what other users found most effective - Sam Browne belt, Reflective Gilet, or just get some lights?
I usually ride with a small 'camel' style back pack which would probably hide most of a cheap hi-viz vest, plus they tend to be a bit short in the body - I am currently looking at either a Sam Browne belt - which is only a relatively small reflective surface, but could also be worn over a rain coat or possibly the Altura Night vision Gilet - or should i just bite the bullet and get some lights?
Regards
Paul

sloppyschleckonds

s1paulj wrote:

just get some lights?

get some lights?

frisbee

Flashing LED lights are very effective.

s1paulj

Just looking at some of the cateye rear light products and they are actually cheaper than the Gilet!

Gizmodo

You're going to need lights legally soon anyway. If I need lights I always have 2 just in case the battery dies on 1.
1 flashing and 1 steady is the best in my opinion.

These are great small lights http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-femto-dr ... ight-2013/

Dmak

Don't buy yellow/green hi vis. It does not work. It is not noticeable enough to drivers.

foggybike

For the rear, get one of these. I have just got one and you really cannot miss it, if you are looking, I think that is half the issue idiots not looking where they are going.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/moon-shield-60- ... ear-light/

I don't agree with one of the previous replies about yellow/green high vis not working. They obviously do work, but Orange seems to stand out more in my opinion.

diy

flashing lights the more the better - £1 shops also sell arm bands with flashing lights. Also a decent head light will throw a decent beam ahead of you and people will see that too.

alihisgreat

foggybike wrote:

For the rear, get one of these. I have just got one and you really cannot miss it, if you are looking, I think that is half the issue idiots not looking where they are going.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/moon-shield-60- ... ear-light/

I don't agree with one of the previous replies about yellow/green high vis not working. They obviously do work, but Orange seems to stand out more in my opinion.

hmm orange is a bit.. errr



The human eye is supposed to be able to detect yellow first - but obviously if you're cycling next to a yellow wall you're going to be harder to spot

chris_bass

Dmak wrote:

Don't buy yellow/green hi vis. It does not work. It is not noticeable enough to drivers.

is this true? if so which colours are better?

or are you saying high vis alone is not enough?

sloppyschleckonds

Chris Bass wrote:

Dmak wrote:

Don't buy yellow/green hi vis. It does not work. It is not noticeable enough to drivers.

is this true? if so which colours are better?

or are you saying high vis alone is not enough?

Pink

slowbike

Back light(s) ... first and foremost ...

I was dressed in black today - back light was on.
Once it starts getting darker I'll put a second light on.

Reflectives are ok - but should be secondary. You can get some velcro arm/leg bands with reflective strips on - these are handy. I put mudguards on when it's really wet - that has a reflective tape down the back.
My overshoes have reflective strips on (but I didn't wear them today)

Lights first ...

s1paulj

I did quite a lot of reading stuff on the web last night. it seems the consensus of opinion is that when other road users do not have their lights on the reflective stuff is of limited use. Also the brightly coloured vest/tops etc are good against a contrasting background - i.e. a bright yellow top shows up well against a dark background, but not so well against lighter back grounds. As we can't control the background we ride against, they are good some of the time, so you should not assume you can be seen because you're wearing something bright. As a result i have bought some lights - particularly a rear one with flashing modes to attract a drivers attention. As someone on this thread pointed out i'll need them soon anyway so it seemed the sensible option.
Also recommended were the reflective arm and leg bands as the movement also attracts attention.
The other piece of recommended advice was around road positioning - take command of the road, don't hid in the gutter, about 1/3 of your carriage way seems to be a good place. This has a few positive aspects - 1) it gives you some room if a car cuts close and allows room to pass the appalling ruts in the road 2) a car can only pass when there is room to safely do so 3) puts you more centrally in the drivers line of sight rather than in their peripheral vision at the side of the road.
Looking forward to playing with my Moon Comet lights
Regards
Paul

iPete

Hope District for day and night use...

http://www.cyclistno1.co.uk/gear/access ... rict-3.htm



..and before suggested, none of my mates in cars have said it was blinding... but you can be seen from the moon.

slowbike

s1paulj wrote:

The other piece of recommended advice was around road positioning - take command of the road, don't hid in the gutter, about 1/3 of your carriage way seems to be a good place.

There are times when riding a little closer to the edge is more advisable - other times when you're better off riding in the middle of the lane.
It's a judgement call - where I ride partly depends on my speed - if crawling up a hill then probably closer to the side - hurtling down that same hill I take up the whole lane ...
So don't get fixated on 1/3rd of the way into the lane being the best place to be all the time. It isn't.

noiseboyfeetman

Gizmodo wrote:

These are great small lights http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-femto-dr ... ight-2013/

+1 excellent set of lights, I have on my commuter in flashing mode as well as http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lezyne-macro-front-micro-rear-led-light-pair-2013/ I have had the micro rear light pop out a couple of times on rougher more potholed roads though.

dee4life2005

+1 on the Moon Shield linked above. On max brightness it's as bright, or brighter(?) than a car fog light .... just don't make the mistake of switching it on and looking into it when you get it, like someone in my work did, lol ;-)

Schoie81

Slowbike wrote:

It's a judgement call - where I ride partly depends on my speed - if crawling up a hill then probably closer to the side - hurtling down that same hill I take up the whole lane ...
So don't get fixated on 1/3rd of the way into the lane being the best place to be all the time. It isn't.

I totally agree with this. On a long straight road or when I'm dying up a hill at 6mph, I try to stay out of the way so others can get past and get on with their journeys, but if I don't think its safe for someone to be overtaking me, I move over and take up more of the road so that they don't get the stupid notion in their heads that it'll be fine to squeeze past me with inches to spare and with no idea if anything is coming around the corner ahead of us.

If visibility isn't great (like this morning) I tend to wear bright red. My rear light will be going back on soon too for morning and evening rides.

ALIHISGREAT - I thought the human eye reacts quickest to the colour red, not yellow - hence why roads signs warning of danger are red or have red perimeters and traffic lights and brake lights are red?

Baby Trek

Lights all the way for me...even in daylight...I think you need all the help you can get nowadays.

Dmak

Chris Bass wrote:

Dmak wrote:

Don't buy yellow/green hi vis. It does not work. It is not noticeable enough to drivers.

is this true? if so which colours are better?

or are you saying high vis alone is not enough?

Anything but yellow/green. I have this vaguely plausible theory that because, grass, plants and trees are green it's almost like camo.

A quick look on youtube at cycle crashes involving SMIDSY and you'll notice most people are wearing this yellow/green hi vis when they get taken out.

Dmak

Doesn't stand out that much eh?

alihisgreat

Schoie81 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

It's a judgement call - where I ride partly depends on my speed - if crawling up a hill then probably closer to the side - hurtling down that same hill I take up the whole lane ...
So don't get fixated on 1/3rd of the way into the lane being the best place to be all the time. It isn't.

I totally agree with this. On a long straight road or when I'm dying up a hill at 6mph, I try to stay out of the way so others can get past and get on with their journeys, but if I don't think its safe for someone to be overtaking me, I move over and take up more of the road so that they don't get the stupid notion in their heads that it'll be fine to squeeze past me with inches to spare and with no idea if anything is coming around the corner ahead of us.

If visibility isn't great (like this morning) I tend to wear bright red. My rear light will be going back on soon too for morning and evening rides.

ALIHISGREAT - I thought the human eye reacts quickest to the colour red, not yellow - hence why roads signs warning of danger are red or have red perimeters and traffic lights and brake lights are red?

Brake lights are red because head lights are yellow

and I'd assume red was chosen for stop signs since its an aggressive colour?

teisetrotter

Pink then orange.

Hals1967

I think that because yellow\green hi-viz has become so commonplace these days some drivers suffer from a sort of "hi-viz blindness". They see it, but because they've become so accustomed to seeing it they actually ignore it !

A good set of lights is better IMO, I use flashing mode during the day and run two lights front and back at dusk\night - one constant and the other flashing.

I wouldn't write off wearing hi-viz because if you do have an accident it may help in the event of a claim\dispute.

To be honest we cyclists need all the help we can get some days ( I say this as both a cyclist and a driver).

foggybike

I got knocked off, in the day, nice and bright.

I had no lights and black clothing. First thing police said to me was you're not doing yourself any favours! But they were right. Not my fault, guy came straight through the roundabout....

Now, neon clothing, lights (flashing) and a bike with neon colouring.

But you still have to hope that drivers are actually looking.

Stupid-death

I always notice Pink, normally try and see what she looks like

farrina

Stupid-death wrote:

I always notice Pink, normally try and see what she looks like

I suppose you cannot rely on the shaved legs either - have to get up close before you realise she is a he !

unixnerd

I run a small head torch when it's dark. If you look directly at drivers on roundabouts or junctions they''ll see you but you won't blind them. Really works well.

slowbike

unixnerd wrote:

I run a small head torch when it's dark. If you look directly at drivers on roundabouts or junctions they''ll see you but you won't blind them. Really works well.

On the road in the dark I think head torches are a distraction - they're at the wrong height and bob about all over the place .... By all means have one, but make sure your brighter light is on your bars...

unixnerd

Agreed, always have bar lights too.

Schoie81

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Schoie81 wrote:

ALIHISGREAT - I thought the human eye reacts quickest to the colour red, not yellow - hence why roads signs warning of danger are red or have red perimeters and traffic lights and brake lights are red?

Brake lights are red because head lights are yellow

and I'd assume red was chosen for stop signs since its an aggressive colour?

Done a bit of googling and it seems that the human eye responds quicker to red in good light conditions, but the darker it gets, the more red looks like black - and so is useless for being seen!! So on a bright sunny day, red is the colour, but in gloomy/dark conditions (which lets face it, is when you need to make more effort to be seen) its yellow you want to be wearing.

To the OP - been out and about in the car this weekend, and seen lots of cyclists with a wide mix of coloured clothing and lights (during the day). Have to say that by far the most eye-catching were those who had a red flashing light on the back, so that'd be the best thing IMO. Then as others have suggested, orange coloured hi-viz stuff seems to stand out best.