Vintage or Just a Bit Old?

VmanF3

Just been for a ride out and stopped at a bike shop that I have never been to before. On the whole, not bad stuff, but the collection of shabby old bikes being flogged as 'classic' is utterly mad and the cost staggering.

I'm all for folk who have the skill/time/money/dedication that restore bikes, but these shops just seem to be chancing their arm somewhat. I mean 80's bog standard being labelled as 'classic' or 'vintage'?

Sure, there are a few (loads i suppose) great bikes that came from the good ol' days, but £800 for a Kirk?

Guitars have been hit with this retro nonsense (edit: absolutely everything), now it would appear that bikes are on the same route. At least with guitars their definition of vintage is the 1950's whereas bikes it appears to be anything in last years colours.

Will the next generation of merchant bankers be hanging stock standard 1980's Colnagos over their fireplace, next to the Ducati and Fender Tele....?

Now let me dig my old Raleigh Record and Raleigh Burner out of the garage......

team47b

I bought some vintage cheddar today

ballysmate

Talking of vintage, any oenophiles on here?

VmanF3

Ballysmate wrote:

Talking of vintage, any oenophiles on here?

Can't beat a good whine...

Monty Dog

There's a healthy market for retro-bikes, particularly classic Italian frames from the 70s and 80s with Campagnolo components - the kind of bikes few could afford at that time. The problem is that folks with gas-pipe Raleighs/Peugeot/Puchs etc thinks they're worth something because they're 'old' when in fact they've sat neglected in their garages because they were rubbish then...and still are now.

ballysmate

I would like to describe myself as vintage, but I feel my kids would describe me as a bit old.

VTech

Ballysmate wrote:

Talking of vintage, any oenophiles on here?

Thing is, 10 years ago this would have cost you less than £100/bottle.



Now you could pay a massive chunk of your mortgage off with it

VmanF3

You must have a very small mortgage.

VTech

VmanF3 wrote:

You must have a very small mortgage.

I bought a lot of wine

ballysmate

VTech wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Talking of vintage, any oenophiles on here?

Thing is, 10 years ago this would have cost you less than £100/bottle.



Now you could pay a massive chunk of your mortgage off with it

If I had bought it, I would be asking how much the empty bottle was worth.
The wine would have been long gone.

anthdci

I never understand the attraction of vintage or retro, to mean both are just marketing speak for old and second hand. I'd much rather new and up-to date. Same goes for loads of things, cars, clothes, bikes ect.

VTech

anthdci wrote:

I never understand the attraction of vintage or retro, to mean both are just marketing speak for old and second hand. I'd much rather new and up-to date. Same goes for loads of things, cars, clothes, bikes ect.

New 458 or old 250GTO ?

New stamp or old penny black ?

New pair of 501's or old 1882 501's ?

anthdci

VTech wrote:

New 458 or old 250GTO ?

New stamp or old penny black ?

New pair of 501's or old 1882 501's ?

458 everytime, but I've never like ferrari's if you said DB5 or DB9 it would still be a DB9 I don't see the attraction of old cars, they are slower, less reliable, less comfortable, less extras and design is personal preference which I prefer newer designs. I don't know what the rest are.

desweller

anthdci wrote:

I never understand the attraction of vintage or retro, to mean both are just marketing speak for old and second hand. I'd much rather new and up-to date. Same goes for loads of things, cars, clothes, bikes ect.

Really? You have no interest in our past at all?

anthdci

DesWeller wrote:

Really? You have no interest in our past at all?

Well that's not the same thing. I can appreciate design and technological achievements from the past, but if I had the choice to buy an old car or buy a new car for example I would spend my money on new.

VTech

I would swap a 458 for a 250 any day, hell, id give a cool million on top too !

I have an affinity with modern car design but the past wins for me in looks at almost all levels of sports.

anthdci

VTech wrote:

I would swap a 458 for a 250 any day, hell, id give a cool million on top too !

I have an affinity with modern car design but the past wins for me in looks at almost all levels of sports.

why? To me its like saying you'd prefer a bike from the 1800's with single speed and solid tyres than a s-works venge mlaren just because its old. Old does not automatically make it a better design.

VTech

Your right, I wouldnt keep an old Leyland Montego in my garage but would gladly store this:

anthdci

VTech wrote:

Your right, I wouldnt keep an old Leyland Montego in my garage but would gladly store this:

nice car but I would still have an aventador. That way you can actually drive more than 100 yards. If something is that good and that admired from the past it should be in a museum be it car museum or fashion or whatever.

VTech

anthdci wrote:

VTech wrote:

Your right, I wouldnt keep an old Leyland Montego in my garage but would gladly store this:

nice car but I would still have an aventador. That way you can actually drive more than 100 yards. If something is that good and that admired from the past it should be in a museum be it car museum or fashion or whatever.

The problem is that the aventador isn't too nice to drive (not saying the above is nice either) its ok to drive to the beach but you wouldnt want to drive from the midlands to London in it.

ballysmate

VTech wrote:

anthdci wrote:

VTech wrote:

Your right, I wouldnt keep an old Leyland Montego in my garage but would gladly store this:

nice car but I would still have an aventador. That way you can actually drive more than 100 yards. If something is that good and that admired from the past it should be in a museum be it car museum or fashion or whatever.

The problem is that the aventador isn't too nice to drive (not saying the above is nice either) its ok to drive to the beach but you wouldnt want to drive from the midlands to London in it.

Brings the conversation round to a favourite hobby horse of mine, namely image and marketing over substance. Why would anyone wish to pay such a vast amount of money for a machine that has very limited practical use.
I get the point that it is their money to spend as they wish, but I still get the feeling that the buyers have been 'had'.

VTech

You have a point, often I find others like me who thought it was a good idea at the time, the weather is sunny and the idea of a car seems to take an unrealistic trip to the top of your "must have" list and before you know it, its too late

Ive personally had several cars that have covered less than 250 miles in my ownership.

pliptrot

I saw a Top Gear Episode on one of the repeat channels (Dave?) during which each of the 3 bought a 1980s "supercar" and then raced them. 30 years appeared to have done the same to such cars as to all the other worthless tin junk the world appears to be obsessed with. It certainly made me realise what hype goes into selling expensive cars.....and what fools those who buy such things are. Fine bicycles, on the other hand, are works of craftsmanship. The good ones are art in their own right, and are rightly sought after.

Marketing: there's at least one poster in this thread who, 250 or so years ago, would be displaying his latest high value flower bulbs for us all to see. Only today it's posting pictures of cars....

VTech

pliptrot wrote:

I saw a Top Gear Episode on one of the repeat channels (Dave?) during which each of the 3 bought a 1980s "supercar" and then raced them. 30 years appeared to have done the same to such cars as to all the other worthless tin junk the world appears to be obsessed with. It certainly made me realise what hype goes into selling expensive cars.....and what fools those who buy such things are. Fine bicycles, on the other hand, are works of craftsmanship. The good ones are art in their own right, and are rightly sought after.

Marketing: there's at least one poster in this thread who, 250 or so years ago, would be displaying his latest high value flower bulbs for us all to see. Only today it's posting pictures of cars....

How many tour riders use those vintage bikes to compete these days ?
Your argument is flawed, classic design is great but at no time did I say it proved more practical, thats a totally different kettle of fish.

Also, would you like to see me new trees I got the help to plant in the gardens ? They do look rather good.

the playing mantis

i would. i'm a closet arborist. to make it more fun, dont tell me what they are i want to guess.

Giraffoto

the playing mantis wrote:

i'm a closet arborist.

If I need a bit of dredging done, I'll bear that in mind

pliptrot

VTech wrote:

pliptrot wrote:I saw a Top Gear Episode on one of the repeat channels (Dave?) during which each of the 3 bought a 1980s "supercar" and then raced them. 30 years appeared to have done the same to such cars as to all the other worthless tin junk the world appears to be obsessed with. It certainly made me realise what hype goes into selling expensive cars.....and what fools those who buy such things are. Fine bicycles, on the other hand, are works of craftsmanship. The good ones are art in their own right, and are rightly sought after.

Marketing: there's at least one poster in this thread who, 250 or so years ago, would be displaying his latest high value flower bulbs for us all to see. Only today it's posting pictures of cars....


How many tour riders use those vintage bikes to compete these days ?
Your argument is flawed, classic design is great but at no time did I say it proved more practical, thats a totally different kettle of fish.

Er.....so that's clear then.

rolf_f

pliptrot wrote:

I saw a Top Gear Episode on one of the repeat channels (Dave?) during which each of the 3 bought a 1980s "supercar" and then raced them.

They bought 3 cars that cost a lot to run when they were new, and cost a lot to run now, for too little money and thrashed them (one immediately after it's engine had been rebuilt :roll: ). The results were predictable (and depressing). If you mistreat machinery it will break whether it is old or new and whether it is a supercar or a bicycle. Three idiots being stupid on tv doesn't prove anything useful.

VTech

Rolf F wrote:

pliptrot wrote:

I saw a Top Gear Episode on one of the repeat channels (Dave?) during which each of the 3 bought a 1980s "supercar" and then raced them.

They bought 3 cars that cost a lot to run when they were new, and cost a lot to run now, for too little money and thrashed them (one immediately after it's engine had been rebuilt :roll: ). The results were predictable (and depressing). If you mistreat machinery it will break whether it is old or new and whether it is a supercar or a bicycle. Three idiots being stupid on tv doesn't prove anything useful.

I would like to point out the the supercars top gear have loaned from us have always stood up to their testing.
That aside, he more exotic the car the more unreliable on the whole they become.
I wouldn't think twice about driving a for mondeo 3000 miles but each time I've done the Gumball rally I have secretly been pupping myself over wether or not the cars would make it to the finish.
For me, these types of cars wether old or new are just a thing of pleasure, totally unreliable in the real world. Not practical in any sense but a thing of beauty non-the-less.

veronese68

Wether something is old, classic or vintage seems to depend on rarity, perceived value and age. I would say an original Raleigh Chopper is a classic by virtue of the design and the fact that many men of a certain age have fond memories of them so are prepared to pay over the odds for one. The average bike churned out by Raleigh at the same time is just plain old. Similarly a Montego is old whilst a Ferrari 308 is a classic although they are of similar ages. Once something gets really old it seems to bypass this logic. A Ford Model T or Model A, Austin 7 or similar are all considered vintage. I wouldn't consider any bike of the 80s to be vintage, possibly classic if desirable or retro if you really insist.
There is no reason you can't use an old car every day with a couple of minor modifications. Fit an electric fan and electronic ignition and if they have been well looked after there is no reason they can't be reliable and do thousands of miles at a time.

team47b

veteran cars up to 1890
brass era 1890-1918
vintage cars 1919-1930
classic cars 1930-varies, here it is pre 1960