shamal ultra Fulcrum zero

Channon
Channon Posts: 8
edited August 2013 in Road buying advice
Hi there so torn between the shamal ultra dark label and the fulcrum zero dark label. i know there is not much difference between the 2 but was wondering if there is one or the other that is easier to work on / repair? some advice would be great many thanks.

Neil.
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Comments

  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    hubs are the same internally. It comes down to visuals, pretty much.
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • Channon
    Channon Posts: 8
    aragh i so dont know. I prefer the spoke pattern of the zeros but we all like a bit of campagnolo. decisions!
  • thespanishadam
    thespanishadam Posts: 341
    Has to be the Shamals, assuming you have Campag on the bike.
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    If you run shimano or SRAM, get the fulcrums, easier to resell to shim/SRAM crowd than Campag wheels when you get the urge to change in a couple of years (months?)
    If you run Campagnolo then you already know deep down what you need...
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • Channon
    Channon Posts: 8
    edited August 2013
    i'll sort it.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    Channon wrote:
    but was wondering if there is one or the other that is easier to work on / repair?

    Neil.

    Not really... the hubs will be the same and can be serviced etc... the spokes they use don't allow much other than replacements with originals and the rims are expensive in both cases... if you are worried about service and repair, then don't buy factory wheels... if the choice is between those two, check which spare rim is best priced maybe?
    left the forum March 2023
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    Channon wrote:
    do they also take sram red 10 speed cassettes?

    Get the fulcrums.

    Actually, sell the SRAM red, get campagnolo then you can get the shamals :)

    That's what I did!
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • Channon
    Channon Posts: 8
    I know i do hate sram red ?
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    i'd also sell sram red rubbish .... campag all the way imo
  • Channon
    Channon Posts: 8
    any one want to buy sram red group set?
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,909
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Channon wrote:
    do they also take sram red 10 speed cassettes?

    Get the fulcrums.

    Actually, sell the SRAM red, get campagnolo then you can get the shamals :)

    That's what I did!


    finally. :wink:
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Channon
    Channon Posts: 8
    haha this forum lark is funny!
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    They're the same wheels with different labels and slightly different rear spoke patterns, although even the spokes aren't as different as they look. Both use 7 radial spokes on the non-drive side and 14 tangential spokes on the drive side, the idea being to reduce the need to have the drive side spokes at a much higher tension due to the dishing. The only difference is that the shamals have the drive side spokes parallel to the non-drive side ones. Interestingly, although this makes them look "straigher", it's actually as a result of them being slightly more tangential than the ones on the zeros. It would be interesting to know if there is any detectable functional difference between having the spokes slightly more tangential but less evenly attached around the rim, or less tangential but more evenly spaced around the rim. Probably not!

    For me it has usually come down to price, for some reason the Campagnolo ones have often been slightly cheaper in the past and I run Campagnolo anyway, so it's a no-brainer.
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    I've ridden both loads and if someone swapped them in the night it would be impossible to tell.

    Shamals do often come in cheaper. Dark labels are good in either as they will suit more bikes if you change frames.

    Apart from that, go for the ones you like the look of.

    When mine eventually give up the ghost, I might be tempted by getting handbuilts at a similar budget, but they are both great wheelsets, ride smoother than the DAs everybody buys (the exact reason I got rid of my DAs and never looked back).
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    Also consider the Eurus and the Racing 1s. Same wheels except without the carbon hub shells, and the weight difference is less than they quote. I think they slightly over estimate the shamal weights and underestimate the eurus ones to help maintain the model & price differences, it's usually less than 50g and presumably in the hubs so no peripheral rotating mass.
  • Spudboy
    Spudboy Posts: 101
    neeb wrote:
    Also consider the Eurus and the Racing 1s. Same wheels except without the carbon hub shells, and the weight difference is less than they quote. I think they slightly over estimate the shamal weights and underestimate the eurus ones to help maintain the model & price differences, it's usually less than 50g and presumably in the hubs so no peripheral rotating mass.
    Definitely. IMHO the extra ££ for the Shamal over the Eurus is not justified. The Eurus would be where my money went (well, it would be handbuilts actually but lets not go there! :) )
  • Channon
    Channon Posts: 8
    Really helpful guys. Im going to go for the fulcrums as they will look better in my mind. many thanks.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    Channon wrote:
    Really helpful guys. Im going to go for the fulcrums as they will look better in my mind. many thanks.

    I'm glad the black sticker superseeds any concern about eventual repairs... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Channon wrote:
    Really helpful guys. Im going to go for the fulcrums as they will look better in my mind. many thanks.

    I'm glad the black sticker superseeds any concern about eventual repairs... :wink:


    Your all mental (ugo aside), else where on here someone trashed a Mavic SL rim and its in the bin as the repair is too much - Fulcrums are far worse and thats if you can get any bits.
    the Shaml/0 have the worst freehub seals known to man, any water and the outer bearing will seize - i kno all this because i was swept along with the marketing BS and reviews and have a set of DL F0's on my bike (i paid trade though :) ) but im on my 3rd outer bearing and the inner needs replacing now and thats a pig to get out, new FH is approx £60

    dont waste your money - if you must have factory go Mavic.
  • on-yer-bike
    on-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    mamba80 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Channon wrote:
    Really helpful guys. Im going to go for the fulcrums as they will look better in my mind. many thanks.

    I'm glad the black sticker superseeds any concern about eventual repairs... :wink:


    Your all mental (ugo aside), else where on here someone trashed a Mavic SL rim and its in the bin as the repair is too much - Fulcrums are far worse and thats if you can get any bits.
    the Shaml/0 have the worst freehub seals known to man, any water and the outer bearing will seize - i kno all this because i was swept along with the marketing BS and reviews and have a set of DL F0's on my bike (i paid trade though :) ) but im on my 3rd outer bearing and the inner needs replacing now and thats a pig to get out, new FH is approx £60

    dont waste your money - if you must have factory go Mavic.
    My Eurus outer bearing seized, so did my Neutron and my Bora 1 nearly did. They all use the same freehub. I guess Fulcrum freehubs are the same. How do you replace the inner bearing?
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
    Cervelo
    Campagnolo
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    My Shamals are over 5 years old - barely needed a tweak. They replaced some Ksyrium SLs which were harsher-riding, rubbish aerodynamically and were scrapped due to Mavic not being able to supply spare rims after 5 years.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    Monty Dog wrote:
    and were scrapped due to Mavic not being able to supply spare rims after 5 years.

    had they been able to supply them would have made no difference, Monty... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    mamba80 wrote:
    dont waste your money - if you must have factory go Mavic.

    Mavic hubs used to be well designed, but a lot of them are not anymore, my brother was lucky when his hub broke on 2012 Ksyrium Elites, the flange that holds the spokes in disintegrated sending a few spokes out. You'll always find a few people who get problems with various factory built wheels though. At same price level my DA 24s started jumping on the freehub occasionally and the bearings weren't smooth at all after 6 months.

    All the makes have their problems. But, if money is not that important, no-one much cares. If any of my wheelsets break beyond economical repair I'll just replace them, they're only five or six hundred quid, and while doing so I'll ride some of my other wheels.

    If anyone's buying them and pushing their budget to do so with wheels in this price bracket, then they are probably better off with handbuilts to protect minimise future outlay.
  • carrock
    carrock Posts: 1,103
    All the fulcrum spokes hubs and rims are available from I ride.

    They're not cheap, but are available.

    Any high end factory wheels are expensive to rebuild to be fair
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    carrock wrote:
    All the fulcrum spokes hubs and rims are available from I ride.

    They're not cheap, but are available.

    Any high end factory wheels are expensive to rebuild to be fair

    If the parts alone cost more than a new set with a bit of discount, what exactly is the point of them being available?
    left the forum March 2023
  • robbo2011
    robbo2011 Posts: 1,017
    Monty Dog wrote:
    My Shamals are over 5 years old - barely needed a tweak. They replaced some Ksyrium SLs which were harsher-riding, rubbish aerodynamically and were scrapped due to Mavic not being able to supply spare rims after 5 years.

    To be honest, if any wheel, factory or not lasts me 5 years, I would be delighted and consider it has more than done it's job. I don't get why so many people moan so much about this, I mean how many people keep their bikes for more than 5 years anyway? People on here seem to change bikes every 5 minutes!
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    I've worn the front rim on my R3's in two winters and I've had to also replace the freehub and rear bearings as they were shot.

    I would say that the R3's were easy to dismantle, but the cost of the parts makes me now wonder why I bothered servicing them - they are obviously designed to be ridden and binned. Wheels have done about 7.5k miles, but the freehub and bearings were changed after about 5k miles.
    Personally when the repair bill (in parts alone) is probably 1/4 of the total price of the wheels after 5k miles; and now after 7.5k miles the front rim needs replacing soon (1/3 of the price of the wheels), it's feels like owning a 80's Alfa Romeo :roll:

    I would never spend that much on a set of factory wheels. If you have that sort of money, treat yourself to a very special set of hand-built wheels.
    Simon
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    springtide9 wrote:
    I've worn the front rim on my R3's in two winters and I've had to also replace the freehub and rear bearings as they were shot.

    I'm not sure any alloy rim will last any longer if you don't look after it. In winter it is the alloy left in the brake blocks that does the damage - if you don't pick that out the rim will be toast whether factory or handbuilt (though obviously the latter is much cheaper to fix).

    I paid £50 for a pair of barely used Campag wheels which so far have done a good 12,000 miles in all weathers. They still have plenty more in them though the freehub bearing does need replacing. But at that price, I can't see any handbuilt wheel could have offered me any economic or performance benefits. Ofv course, the more money you pay, the more handbuilts make sense as the build cost becomes a smaller proportion of the overall wheel cost.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    Rolf F wrote:

    I paid £50 for a pair of barely used Campag wheels which so far have done a good 12,000 miles in all weathers. They still have plenty more in them though the freehub bearing does need replacing. But at that price, I can't see any handbuilt wheel could have offered me any economic or performance benefits.

    A friend has found a Colnago Master in a skip... I don't think you can beat that pound for pound. A lucky find is a lucky find, nobody argues that a near new set of wheels for 50 quid is a bargain... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    robbo2011 wrote:
    Monty Dog wrote:
    My Shamals are over 5 years old - barely needed a tweak. They replaced some Ksyrium SLs which were harsher-riding, rubbish aerodynamically and were scrapped due to Mavic not being able to supply spare rims after 5 years.

    To be honest, if any wheel, factory or not lasts me 5 years, I would be delighted and consider it has more than done it's job. I don't get why so many people moan so much about this, I mean how many people keep their bikes for more than 5 years anyway? People on here seem to change bikes every 5 minutes!

    the 5yr quote is meaningless unless there is some context regarding use etc.
    Imagine breaking a rear mech and being told that you will also have to buy a chainset and chain as well and those bits will cost almost as much as a total grp set ?

    Factory wheels can look great and perfoem extremely well but why manufactures keep charging soooo much for basic spares is just short sighted profiteering.

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