Knee Wobble

Barrzy257
Barrzy257 Posts: 411
edited August 2013 in Road general
I've had a bad knee and taken 9wks off the bike, I'm not really sure why I've had knee pain but I went for a ride yesterday and I've noticed at the top of the stroke my knee "wobbles" the pain I've had is at the bottom of the knee cap and up around the inside area. I can't produce any real power without it beginning to ache and feel like it's tightening. When stood up, if I rep my toes pointing forward and rotate my foot I can feel a twinge in my knee. I have a general ache in the knee overall

Any help appreciated!

Comments

  • Barrzy257
    Barrzy257 Posts: 411
    I've actually just read and article in cyclist about insoles, I use bont a2s with yellow feet insoles. I am partially flat footed and have had to work and work the arch in these to feel comfy. Could this the issue? Also maybe wedges are needed?
  • chris_bass
    chris_bass Posts: 4,913
    I often go weak at the knees when i see the wiggle honda pro team!!

    slightly more seriously, i used to get a similar thing due to having flat feet, I use super feet insoles and it seems to help.
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    I used to suffer from this and still do when tired.

    If I get it right, as you push down, you knee flexes inwards (or outwards).
    If this is the case, might be worth trying to do core work on your glutes ( one leg presses in the shower).
    Sounds odd, but when I did my bike fit it was picked up for me. Basically your quads are overpowering the glutes and don't have the strength to keep your leg straight.

    Other ways to work the glutes while cycling..
    - climbing out of the saddle on the drops
    - climbing while bolt upright

    I also might be talking rubbish..
    Simon
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,545
    knees etc. are complex, there are many possibilities, from personal experience i'd say go and see a good bike fitter who has the skills+resources to diagnose and make any necessary corrections

    aside from the purely bike related things like saddle height/position cleat set up etc., there's...
    cadence too low/grinding up hills
    excessive pronation
    muscle weakness/imbalance
    tight hamstrings
    leg length difference
    some other physiological issue
    ...or any combination

    if you say which area you are in, maybe you can get some recommendations for fitters in the area
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • sub4
    sub4 Posts: 14
    Check your legs are even length. It's quite common to have some difference. That will make your knee 'draw circles', if your cleats are set the same on both sides.
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    I suffer something similar with my left knee. I had a leg injury a few years ago which damaged the ligaments, this probably has something to do with it.

    My knee moves inward at the top of the stroke, it can brush the toptube on certain frames. I bought some angled wedges and run two under my left cleat, this definitely helps.

    Other things you could try:

    Pedalling differently
    Lowering your saddle
    Adjusting your saddle fore/aft position.
  • onumnos
    onumnos Posts: 22
    Picking up what sungod said, knees are complex. Often it is not the knee per-se but some other factor of which knee pain is the symptom.

    For runners at least, knee-pain is often a sign of an underlying hip abductor weakness, this causes excess strain on the ITB which tightens and pulls the knee cap out of alignment. It is very common, especially amongst the ladies. You can tell who has this badly because their feet flick outwards when they run as the hip cradle is rocking and the leg acts like a free swinging pendulum.

    There are many instructional videos on the web showing various abductor/ITB stretches. I had a mild knee pain when running/cycling that cleared up within a week or so after doing a series of such stretches. It was blinking obvious that the problem side was tight when I did them. Good news they respond really quickly and it feels good too!

    As to the flat feet issue rather than using inserts you can strengthen/raise the arch by eg. barefoot running. I don't necessarily suggest you do BF/minimalist running as it's a bit (a lot) brutal on the lower leg until full strength is obtained, however some of the benefits can be had by walking in flat soled shoes (eg old school plimsolls) that encourage a less heel striking gait. If you feel it in the calves then it's working.

    I believe people have gone down a shoe-size after doing BFR type exercise as the strengthened/raised arch shortens the foot. I know as I've aged my shoe-size drifted up from "about a 10" to "about an 11" and now its "about a 10.5".

    Regarding knees though, don't continue doing what you're doing if it hurts, even if its only mild as they don't tend to improve with time.
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    onumnos wrote:
    Picking up what sungod said, knees are complex. Often it is not the knee per-se but some other factor of which knee pain is the symptom.

    For runners at least, knee-pain is often a sign of an underlying hip abductor weakness, this causes excess strain on the ITB which tightens and pulls the knee cap out of alignment. It is very common, especially amongst the ladies. You can tell who has this badly because their feet flick outwards when they run as the hip cradle is rocking and the leg acts like a free swinging pendulum.

    There are many instructional videos on the web showing various abductor/ITB stretches. I had a mild knee pain when running/cycling that cleared up within a week or so after doing a series of such stretches. It was blinking obvious that the problem side was tight when I did them. Good news they respond really quickly and it feels good too!

    As to the flat feet issue rather than using inserts you can strengthen/raise the arch by eg. barefoot running. I don't necessarily suggest you do BF/minimalist running as it's a bit (a lot) brutal on the lower leg until full strength is obtained, however some of the benefits can be had by walking in flat soled shoes (eg old school plimsolls) that encourage a less heel striking gait. If you feel it in the calves then it's working.

    I believe people have gone down a shoe-size after doing BFR type exercise as the strengthened/raised arch shortens the foot. I know as I've aged my shoe-size drifted up from "about a 10" to "about an 11" and now its "about a 10.5".

    Regarding knees though, don't continue doing what you're doing if it hurts, even if its only mild as they don't tend to improve with time.

    Good reading!

    Do you think this could explain why my right foot appears to have shrunk? It's almost one size down from my left, I've only noticed it in the last year or so really, before thne it never used to bother me. The arch is also higher on my right foot. I dont BFR, but I do wear flat shoes.
  • Barrzy257
    Barrzy257 Posts: 411
    Thanks for the heads up guys, I'm building a bike currently and think I will factor in a bike fit to the cost. I also think I will try wedges, I do pronate but not massively. I'm a salesman so also on my feet a lot! Technique wise I'm pretty good at spinning and always average a 90+ cadence. The difference is leg size is an interesting factor though and one I will look at for sure.

    All comments are greatly appreciated!!