running rough

chatlow
chatlow Posts: 848
edited August 2013 in Workshop
Have just setup an 11-28 cassette and new chain on my claud butler san remo. I am struggling to tune it properly and I am finding it horrible to cycle in most gears especially the fast 11 cog.

I managed to get it to fit my shimano 2300 RD by adjusting the limit screws, and although I have tried playing with the b-set screw, it's doesn't seem to do anything, so to be safe, I've left it screwed all the way in.

As far as I can see the top jockey wheel is directly below each cog as it moves up and down the cassette, so is there anything I can do or look at before I give up and take it to the shop for them to fine tune it?

Thanks

Comments

  • doug5_10
    doug5_10 Posts: 465
    My Tiagra B-screw doesn't seem to do anything either, don't worry! Have you used a correct spacer if required? New stuff can often sound noisy as they haven't yet worn 'together'.
    Edinburgh Revolution Curve
    http://app.strava.com/athletes/1920048
  • chatlow
    chatlow Posts: 848
    Hi

    No haven't used a spacer. Presume I don't need one as it wasn't supplied and the RD seems to find its way correctly underneath each cog of the cassette.

    Perhaps you're right and they just need time to work together and smooth out. Will leave it a few days before going to a cycling specialist.

    Only other thing to look at is cable tension. How tight should I pull the cable before fixing the allen bolt on place on the RD? I held it fairly tight so that it could happily reach the 28t cog (with the help of the high limit screw) and wasn't sure how far in the cable tension screw should be before adjusting. Might be overlooking this a bit too much...
  • doug5_10
    doug5_10 Posts: 465
    It should just be taught not tight, no force required. Your barrel adjuster should be fully screwed in before attaching (unscrewing it then increases tension until your gears are indexed correctly) I would imagine your cable tension is too high to begin with, this will affect shifting down the cassette especially.

    -Attach cable
    -Set high limit screw (align jockey wheel with 11T cog)
    -Shift between 11+12T increasing tension quarter turn at a time until shifting smoothly up + down
    -Go up to 28T and set low limit screw.

    If it runs noisily but the shifting is fine I would imagine it just needs some bedding in.
    Edinburgh Revolution Curve
    http://app.strava.com/athletes/1920048
  • gozzy
    gozzy Posts: 640
    doug5_10 wrote:
    -Shift between 11+12T increasing tension quarter turn at a time until shifting smoothly up + down

    Or, slightly easier way. Start with chain on smallest cog, press shifter up a gear. Turn cranks, meanwhile turn barrel adjuster until gear changes. Your gears are indexed. (Might need a tiny tweek to get spot on)
  • chatlow
    chatlow Posts: 848
    thanks. I followed the same method as shown above to setup, starting on the smallest cog and going up to the 28t to set the low screw (the RD was initially an entire cog out so it need quite a bit of adjustment.

    I think the gears are now pretty well set... it the just the overall running of chain on the cassette - still seems pretty rough and louder definitely not as smooth as it used to be when I added a brand new chain. lube hasn't really helped either.
  • zx6man
    zx6man Posts: 1,092
    2300 does say 26 max, so maybe the 28 is abit too much, but could just need settleing a bit to mesh with each other as mentioned above.
  • chatlow
    chatlow Posts: 848
    well i know the 2300 and a 28t sprocket have been fitted without issues by other members on here but yeah i was worried 28 was too much for it so bought the sora 3500 medium cage as well. when i fitted it I found both the 2300 and 3500 exactly the same so have just returned the 3500.
  • zx6man
    zx6man Posts: 1,092
    I read its something to do with the parallelagram and how its works/moves for the different speeds. Needs to be longer for more speeds , but 3500 on 8 speed would just work almost the same.

    Maybe the chain/cassette combo is naturally louder than what you had before? I found KMC plated Z8S chains seem noisier than the non-plated ones Z8.

    Is your new 11-28 a brand new cassette?
  • When you say "horrible to ride" do you mean that it makes a lot of noise or does it mis-shift? If it keeps mis-shifting then I would consider getting the mech hanger alignment checked in case it is bent.
    If its noisy, I would check to see if the lower jockey wheel is fitted the correct way round. They are directional and cause rough running when fitted the wrong way. Look for the little arrows.
  • Schoie81
    Schoie81 Posts: 749
    zx6man wrote:
    2300 does say 26 max, so maybe the 28 is abit too much, but could just need settleing a bit to mesh with each other as mentioned above.

    My bike came with 2300 mech and an 11-28 cassette as a standard spec - i've had no problems...?
    "I look pretty young, but I'm just back-dated"
  • zx6man
    zx6man Posts: 1,092
    Schoie81 wrote:
    zx6man wrote:
    2300 does say 26 max, so maybe the 28 is abit too much, but could just need settleing a bit to mesh with each other as mentioned above.

    My bike came with 2300 mech and an 11-28 cassette as a standard spec - i've had no problems...?

    Only quoting specs, as mentioned too, a few people have done it without much issue. Tempted myself now as I have a 26 and could do with the 28 from time to time :-)
  • Yossie
    Yossie Posts: 2,600
    Its because you have a "fast" 11 cog and not a "medium speed" or "never used much because I can't turn it" 11 cog.

    You need to specify this prior to ordering.

    Have a word with LBS and see what they say.

    HTH

    Y
  • zx6man
    zx6man Posts: 1,092
    Schoie81 wrote:
    zx6man wrote:
    2300 does say 26 max, so maybe the 28 is abit too much, but could just need settleing a bit to mesh with each other as mentioned above.

    My bike came with 2300 mech and an 11-28 cassette as a standard spec - i've had no problems...?

    What make cassette is the 11-28, from a mtb range?
  • Schoie81
    Schoie81 Posts: 749
    zx6man wrote:
    Schoie81 wrote:
    zx6man wrote:
    2300 does say 26 max, so maybe the 28 is abit too much, but could just need settleing a bit to mesh with each other as mentioned above.

    My bike came with 2300 mech and an 11-28 cassette as a standard spec - i've had no problems...?

    Only quoting specs, as mentioned too, a few people have done it without much issue. Tempted myself now as I have a 26 and could do with the 28 from time to time :-)

    Yeah - Giant obviously think they know the 2300 derailleur better than Shimano!! As I say though - it works fine in practice so maybe they DO know better! And I'm with you - couldn't manage without 28 on some of the hills around here, not at the moment anyway! In fact, more than 28 would be nice sometimes!!
    zx6man wrote:
    What make cassette is the 11-28, from a mtb range?

    It is an SRAM PG850 11-28 8 Speed cassette - I have no idea if its from a MTB range or not...?
    "I look pretty young, but I'm just back-dated"
  • zx6man
    zx6man Posts: 1,092
    Thanks, PGM 850 is normally listed as a MTb cassette as I have the 11-32 PGM850 on my mtb.
  • chatlow
    chatlow Posts: 848
    zx6man wrote:
    I read its something to do with the parallelagram and how its works/moves for the different speeds. Needs to be longer for more speeds , but 3500 on 8 speed would just work almost the same.

    Maybe the chain/cassette combo is naturally louder than what you had before? I found KMC plated Z8S chains seem noisier than the non-plated ones Z8.

    Is your new 11-28 a brand new cassette?

    yeah it's a HG51 11-28 from ribble - http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... himcasm221

    came in clear plastic packaging but looks new to me.

    Gareth_CM wrote:
    When you say "horrible to ride" do you mean that it makes a lot of noise or does it mis-shift? If it keeps mis-shifting then I would consider getting the mech hanger alignment checked in case it is bent.
    If its noisy, I would check to see if the lower jockey wheel is fitted the correct way round. They are directional and cause rough running when fitted the wrong way. Look for the little arrows.

    I have messed around with the screws and tension and the shifting is now pretty much spot on. It's the noise I am referring to. Funnily enough I cleaned and re-greased the jockey wheels a month or two ago and didn;t look to see if they were meant to rotate a certain way - will check now!

    Yossie wrote:
    Its because you have a "fast" 11 cog and not a "medium speed" or "never used much because I can't turn it" 11 cog.

    You need to specify this prior to ordering.

    Have a word with LBS and see what they say.

    HTH

    Y

    Was this aimed at me??
  • chatlow
    chatlow Posts: 848
    taken a look at the jockey wheel (didnt take them out) and can't see any arrow specifying the direction. They are off the standard shimano 2300 RD
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    chatlow wrote:
    taken a look at the jockey wheel (didnt take them out) and can't see any arrow specifying the direction. They are off the standard shimano 2300 RD

    They don't have a direction, but the upper and lower pulleys are subtly different so you shouldn't swap them. I think 'upper' is stamped on one of them to avoid confusion.
  • chatlow
    chatlow Posts: 848
    Ah right, I was looking at the direction. the wheels are definitely the correct way around as in top and bottom

    thanks
  • zx6man
    zx6man Posts: 1,092
    Can ya post a pic of the RD?
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    on my 2300RD the upper cog is solid, the lower has splines on. I wouldn't swear to it - but I think the lower one is larger - only by a small amount though.
  • chatlow
    chatlow Posts: 848
    yeah it has solid cog at the top, splined one underneath. the bottom one is slightly larger. will post a pic of set up later on