how do you carry enough water?

davidefernandes

smidsy wrote:

davidefernandes wrote:

distance is irrelevant, he/she is asking about carrying more water, not how much people drink. I drink 3 litres for a 60 mile ride, a lot of people on here will drink a lot less, some may drink more.

Have you actually read what you have written. The longer you cycle the more likely you are to need to drink more.

If we talk time rather than distance do you then agree that you will drink more?

The OP states he is doing longer and longer distances as the reason he wants to carry more water.

Your notion that distance is irrelevant holds no water

you misunderstand me.

He is cycling a certain distance and runs out of water, he is asking how to carry more water, therefore the distance isnt relevant to his question as he already cycled far enough for him to need more water. You see?

Pross

davidefernandes wrote:

I use a camelback on my road bike, it's easy, barely notice its there and you don't have to reach down to get it or worry about putting it back in. That gets me 3 litres of water, most of which I finished when I did my 60 mile ride the other day.

People on here saying you won't need more than such and such or your not hydrating yourself enough before hand is a bit daft because everyone will need different amounts of water throughout the cycle, depending on fitness levels. I reckon we all drink a lot more than the professionals do.

I certainly don't and I doubt many other amateurs do. They are riding at a much higher intensity so need more fluids (not to mention the energy in their drinks). I've used between 3 and 4 750ml bottles on a 112 mile, tough sportive on a fairly warm day. A pro will use about double that on a race of the same length. They are constantly back and forward to team cars for bottles and also take them at feed zones and other points of a race. The amount of fluid you need relates to how much you lose and how much you had stored before you started but most people are also using drinks as a source of energy.

drlodge

OK, back On Topic...2 options
- Stop off to top up your water supplies (cafe, pub etc) or
- Carry more water. On the RLS100 I saw one chap with two bottles on his frame, and another twin bottle cage thingy behind his saddle. With that setup you could carry 4 litres.

Oh, option 3, drink less water, but I don't recommend it.

davebelushi

I carry the vast majority of it in my stomach before setting off, a 750mm bottle (or bidon for the pedants) and buy, rob or beg if I need more. The uk is hardly the Serengeti is it....

cesco

doug5_10 wrote:

Rule 1: 500ml per hour

I find that more than enough. I usually only go on 1.5/2 hr rides, bringing one 500ml bottle and drinking plenty beforehand. Depending on the weather and intensity (as well as the dryness of my energy bars), I usually have a sip or two left. Which sucks, because of the weight obviously and because it feels like I haven't given it enough. Having too little on you however.. Indeed, sucks as well.

Rule 2: No Camelbacks

So true. If you want to bring extra water, pretend you're carrying it over to your friends:

will3

No, if it was the serengeti, it'd be wildebeest not bison.

davebelushi

will3 wrote:

No, if it was the serengeti, it'd be wildebeest not bison.

true, true....

cougie

Pilot Pete wrote:

I personally sweat like buggery - recently calculated my sweat rate in preparation for a 100m TT and I need 1.2l/hr to stay fully hydrated! Bloody unbelievable I know, but that is at 25mph average in warm conditions. On a 50 I will drink 1ltr which just about gets me to the finish, but I fully hydrate before and again straight after. Anyone who says I should be able to do it on less is just talking pie in the sky. We are all different, a young lad on the 50 set off in frontof me with just a 500ml bottle and didn't plan to pick up any more! He did alright with a sub 2hr on a 'J' course...
PP

I dont think you need to stay fully hydrated - the body can cope pretty well with certain degrees of dehydration.
I believe the Energy drink industry have helped to perpetuate this story.

http://www.amazon.com/Waterlogged-Serio ... 145042497X

djm501

marcusjb wrote:

Pubs, shops, graveyards (many will have a tap for watering flowers) and failing all of those, the kindness of strangers working in their front gardens.

Only a true audaxer would rob graveyards for water!

[edit]Thinking about it, it's a good tip![/edit]

ianbar

2 on my frame, 1 in jersey and 1 on my saddle bag, could take another in my jersey if needed

IanRCarter

I wondered why I haven't seen this subject on here before, I thought it would be a common question but clearly most people don't drink as much as me.

I don't hydrate properly before setting off, only occasionally remember to take a glass of water before jumping on the bike. So I'm already ~500ml down by the time I get out of town and onto the quiet roads. Generally it takes me about 2-2 1/2 hours to get through 2 750ml bottles.

I just stop off at a village shop and buy a big bottle of water. Just make sure you have a lock if you're going to do this, even just a cheap retractable combi lock which will stop any random person walking off with your bike. Or get directions to the nearest graveyard, whichever you prefer.

earth

Pilot Pete wrote:

davidefernandes wrote:

People on here saying you won't need more than such and such or your not hydrating yourself enough before hand is a bit daft because everyone will need different amounts of water throughout the cycle, depending on fitness levels. I reckon we all drink a lot more than the professionals do.

Everyone will need different amounts due to differing physiology and different sweat rates and different power outputs etc etc.

I reckon most probably drink a lot less than professionals,who drink something like 500ml per hour minimum. They are regimented and train to keep the fluid intake at optimum. They also have an endless supply on hand when they need it. Most 'Sunday warriors' that I know do not drink anywhere near enough.

I personally sweat like buggery - recently calculated my sweat rate in preparation for a 100m TT and I need 1.2l/hr to stay fully hydrated! Bloody unbelievable I know, but that is at 25mph average in warm conditions. On a 50 I will drink 1ltr which just about gets me to the finish, but I fully hydrate before and again straight after. Anyone who says I should be able to do it on less is just talking pie in the sky. We are all different, a young lad on the 50 set off in frontof me with just a 500ml bottle and didn't plan to pick up any more! He did alright with a sub 2hr on a 'J' course...

I personally don't think you can train yourself to drink less fluid and remain fully hydrated. You are what you are and I have always needed a much larger fluid intake than friends and colleagues doing similar activities. I first noticed it in the Army where I would go through much more than my mates, constantly filling up my water bottles in streams etc whilst they seemed to happily survive for hours on just 1ltr...I have always sweated buckets when doing any form of exercise, even in winter with minimal clothing. Army doc once told me it was a sign of an efficient internal heating/ cooling mechanism....not sure about that though!

PP

I agree with your sentiment. But how did you calculate your hydration needs?

djm501

I believe the standard method is to go out on a long-ish ride and weigh yourself before and after (without drinking)- the difference is mostly water and so you can work out your sweat rate from that (best done over a few rides to get a good average).
You then drink the calculated amount to compensate.

oldwelshman

styxd wrote:

davidefernandes wrote:

People on here saying you won't need more than such and such or your not hydrating yourself enough before hand is a bit daft because everyone will need different amounts of water throughout the cycle, depending on fitness levels. I reckon we all drink a lot more than the professionals do.

Exacly, I handed a bottle of Evian to a Euopcar rider on Alp D Huez this year and he just poured it on his head!

Did you expect him to drink it? he would be bloody stupid if he did as he would not know what was in it!

pilot_pete

I agree with your sentiment. But how did you calculate your hydration needs?

Do a test. Or better still a number of tests in varying conditions. I did mine for TTing, so I went out and rode at TT pace.

It starts off by taking your weight, naked, before going out to ride. Prior to this, eat normally and drink some fluid. However, what you must ensure is that you have already had your daily 'dump' and preferably your final wee before RETURNING from your ride. So, don't over hydrate, or if you do make sure you measure how much pee you do from then on until the testis over. See? You really don't want to do another pee until the test is finished!

Make up your drinks as required for the ride. Ensure you know how many millilitres of fluid you have made up - use a measuring jug rather than just fill a 500ml bottle, which probably isn't exactly 500ml.

Now go out and ride your test. I did one hour at 25mph average pace. Remember I was on my TT bike testing fluid requirements for a TT event, in this case a 100m TT was my target. 25mph was my target speed for the 4hr event. You test for what you are aiming at, be it normal riding or a sportive or hilly event etc etc.

The key is to not pee any fluid out or stop for a number two, but if you do, you need to know how much they weigh....rather you than me!

After your ride weigh yourself naked once again. If you have say lost 1/2kg then that is 500ml of fluid (sweat, moisture from breathing etc). However, if you have drunk say 400ml (measured from what you started with minus what is left in your bottle), well, you will have added 400g to your pre-ride weight from fluid intake. If your post ride weigh in showed you had lost 1/2kg (500g) then you have lost the 500g in weight plus the 400g of fluid intake during the ride, so you must have sweated and breathed out 900g.

Now, to make things easy, if the ride was exactly an hour long, then your sweat rate was 900ml/hr. If not exactly an hour, then pro rata it for an hour; i.e. if the ride was 1:15 long, divide the 900 by 75 (minutes) and multiply by 60 to get the hourly rate.

This gives you a base line and you have to take into account the conditions on the day. Obviously if you rode into a really strong headwind in 35*c conditions, then you will probably have sweated more than on a calm still ride at the same speed on a day when it is only 10*c. If it was really hilly etc etc. but you get the idea?

My TT effort showed I was sweating/ losing 1200ml/hr! I am a really heavy sweater, whatever the conditions. This allowed me to work out a fluid uptake strategy for my 100m TT, from which I could then look at when to pick up bottles, whereabouts on the course would be suitable etc etc.

Hope this is useful.

PP

Tjgoodhew

I tend to get through a bottle every 90 minutes using two 750ml bottles.

Any further and i usually stop at a shop or pub and fill up then.

I am usually REALLY thirsty at the start of a ride but after about 20 miles i have to constantly remind myself to drink as my thirst completely goes. Not sure if this is a common theme or if im maybe not hydrating enough before the ride

elderone

Tjgoodhew wrote:

I tend to get through a bottle every 90 minutes using two 750ml bottles.

Any further and i usually stop at a shop or pub and fill up then.

I am usually REALLY thirsty at the start of a ride but after about 20 miles i have to constantly remind myself to drink as my thirst completely goes. Not sure if this is a common theme or if im maybe not hydrating enough before the ride

This could be me,so your not the only one.

earth

Pilot Pete wrote:

I agree with your sentiment. But how did you calculate your hydration needs?

Do a test. Or better still a number of tests in varying conditions. I did mine for TTing, so I went out and rode at TT pace.

It starts off by taking your weight, naked, before going out to ride. Prior to this, eat normally and drink some fluid. However, what you must ensure is that you have already had your daily 'dump' and preferably your final wee before RETURNING from your ride. So, don't over hydrate, or if you do make sure you measure how much pee you do from then on until the testis over. See? You really don't want to do another pee until the test is finished!

Make up your drinks as required for the ride. Ensure you know how many millilitres of fluid you have made up - use a measuring jug rather than just fill a 500ml bottle, which probably isn't exactly 500ml.

Now go out and ride your test. I did one hour at 25mph average pace. Remember I was on my TT bike testing fluid requirements for a TT event, in this case a 100m TT was my target. 25mph was my target speed for the 4hr event. You test for what you are aiming at, be it normal riding or a sportive or hilly event etc etc.

The key is to not pee any fluid out or stop for a number two, but if you do, you need to know how much they weigh....rather you than me!

After your ride weigh yourself naked once again. If you have say lost 1/2kg then that is 500ml of fluid (sweat, moisture from breathing etc). However, if you have drunk say 400ml (measured from what you started with minus what is left in your bottle), well, you will have added 400g to your pre-ride weight from fluid intake. If your post ride weigh in showed you had lost 1/2kg (500g) then you have lost the 500g in weight plus the 400g of fluid intake during the ride, so you must have sweated and breathed out 900g.

Now, to make things easy, if the ride was exactly an hour long, then your sweat rate was 900ml/hr. If not exactly an hour, then pro rata it for an hour; i.e. if the ride was 1:15 long, divide the 900 by 75 (minutes) and multiply by 60 to get the hourly rate.

This gives you a base line and you have to take into account the conditions on the day. Obviously if you rode into a really strong headwind in 35*c conditions, then you will probably have sweated more than on a calm still ride at the same speed on a day when it is only 10*c. If it was really hilly etc etc. but you get the idea?

My TT effort showed I was sweating/ losing 1200ml/hr! I am a really heavy sweater, whatever the conditions. This allowed me to work out a fluid uptake strategy for my 100m TT, from which I could then look at when to pick up bottles, whereabouts on the course would be suitable etc etc.

Hope this is useful.

PP

Thanks, very useful and I'm sure the OP has benefitted as well.