HT trail bike sub £2000

ubergn0men

Gone back and forth trying to decide which bike to get, but having problem making a decision. Weather is lovely and I would like to get out riding in the close future.

I will be doing mostly trail rides, around lakes and such. The bike I want has to be able to do it all. I don't value performance on roads and gravel roads though. It should be fast in the woods. Since it's the first bike I'm getting I figure I'm probably better off getting an HT, rather than an FS. An FS would probably be good for my riding, but I'm hoping to get a better learning curve starting with an HT. I'm 6 feet tall, weighing in at 180 in good shape.

Been searching and searching for bikes, day and night, but things are sold out. I've tried to narrow it down to some options I found available.

Scott Scale 940
http://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/p ... -940-bike/
I believe I got the price down for this one to 1200 euro, which has to be a great price. It has the CTD fork though which I heard ALOT of problems with. Kind of scared buying this after everything I've read.

Then there's the Radon bikes for 2014. 2013 models are all sold out, and the 2014 is expected sometime in August, so I could probably wait for one of these if advised. They are launching some 27.5 inch HTs which I'm really interested in. I have never ridden a 29er, but I'm scared I will feel clumpsy. 27.5 seems like a good middle for my length, especially considering the trails I'll be riding.

I'd prefer spending as little as possible, but if the 10.0 would be considered "worth it" I'd get this. What is the main difference with SRAM and Shimano XT for me as a novice?

Radon also has some 29ers with similar specc


Also considering waiting for Giant launch of XTC.
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bik ... 828/66310/

So, which one should I get? Are there any other options for me out there? The Radon seem like good choice but how are their frames compared to maybe Scott? The Scott seems really good too, especially for 1200 euro (if this is the case) and I guess I could change fork if I don't like it.

Thanks in advance for any input in the matter. I only know what I've read and value the input from more experienced people.

The Rookie

Radon are great value for money for sure, but for a trail bike I'd want more than 100mm of travel

If I were getting a trail HT new now I'd seriously look at a 650B, I find 29er's too 'unmanouverable' for my taste and as you say 27" is a good compromise.

Have you looked on Pauls Cycles?

I'd be looking at an on-one Carbon 456 with 130mm forks I know the whippet can be built as a 650B and would expect the 456 can as well.

ubergn0men

I'm somewhat afraid of getting a carbon frame. I understand it's very durable for riding, but side force (from crashing) does seem to break the frame easier than similar aluminum.

The On-Ones do look interesting, and building a bike would be an option. I'm just afraid it will take alot more time than buying a finished one. Also, wouldn't this cost ALOT more?

I've been looking at paulcycles, but is there anything that could some close to the Radon mentioned?

The Rookie

The force that would break a carbon frame like a Whippet or 456 (not a svelte road frame perhaps) would totally destroy an ally frame, check out the canondale you tube vid of them smashing a frame with a hammer.

RandG

Canyon AL 7.9 29er, I have one, it's fantastic, and well under 2k

DanDax1990

Build something based on a Cotic Soul frame? :P

punkatron1

Cotic, Genesis or On One would be where I'd look. 456 evo 2 will be a good all rounder, but 456 carbon is a superb riding bike. Handles everything you can throw at it and is quite a bit lighter.

Genesis Core always gets good reviews.

ubergn0men

Those On-One titanium frames do look interesting. So sad they dont offer any 27.5 inch. Would make a perfect allround bike.

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBTIFL29XT/ ... shimano_xt

What are the advantages/disadvantages with titanium compared to alu frames?

EDIT: So, I knew the answer to that one already. I really dont know why I asked. If you can advice me on other titanium frame makers I'd be grateful. The Fireline is a beaty but I really prefer to get a 27.5.

The Rookie

The on-one whippet will take 27" wheels, so maybe the 456 would........

supersonic

My choice would be a carbon 456. The titanium is not worth the extra. As for 650b, just not worth it for me, as 26ers seem to be cheaper, and better specced.

ubergn0men

The Rookie wrote:

The on-one whippet will take 27" wheels, so maybe the 456 would........

So, if I were to get this: http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOTI456VN ... _456_frame I'd be able to mount some 27.5 wheels? Wouldn't I mess up the geometry? I spoke to On One CS and they said they didn't have any 27.5 compatible frame available, even though I hinted that maybe I could use a 26er.

supersonic wrote:

My choice would be a carbon 456. The titanium is not worth the extra. As for 650b, just not worth it for me, as 26ers seem to be cheaper, and better specced.

I'd really prefer not going for carbon, as I've seen too many cracked frames. Bike will be my go to for pretty much everything, so it has to be able to handle that too (and probably the occasional crashes).

cooldad

You'll break before a 456. They are chunky.

ubergn0men

I will definetly give the 456 some thought, even though I'm not sure of the carbon. I'm well aware of it's properties, both from a practical and theoretical standpoint, and would prefer getting a metal frame this time.

Wouldn't I mess up the geometry completely by putting 27.5 on the 456?

If you have other advice on titanium 27.5 manufacturers, please tell. I know Van Nicholas and Lynskey make them. The Lynskey look good, but they are US based (taxes, customs etc. ).

Also might be interested in steel frames for 27.5, or maybe complete bikes.

supersonic

I've seen more cracked titanium frames than carbon, per unit. Carbon is wothout a doubt the way forward.

The Rookie

ubergn0men wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

The on-one whippet will take 27" wheels, so maybe the 456 would........

So, if I were to get this: http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOTI456VN ... _456_frame I'd be able to mount some 27.5 wheels? Wouldn't I mess up the geometry?

You seemed to have missed out my maybe, do some research, maybe see a frame. The Ti looks to have stay bridges so likely to be less likely to take 27".

As others have said though, I'd take carbon over Ti!

It won't mess up the geo as that stays the same as you just raise the front and rear axle by a whopping 1/2", so all angles stay the same.

lawman

The carbon 456 is tough as nails, if you break one of those the bike would be the least of your worries!! It's a good bike, but not the most comfortable in the world, great for short blasts but its pretty brutal over a full days riding. As mentioned the cotic soul would be a great choice and it really doesn't make much difference if its 650b or not. If it really bothers you that much, on one will be launching a 650b steel 456 in the coming months, but IMO the soul would suit your needs down to the ground.

punkatron1

My brother cracked his seat tube on his c456 after a pretty big crash. We were talking about how it rode and he said it was a bit harsh for a full days riding, but a great bike for blasts. So as per one of the above posts really.

ubergn0men

So, bumping my old thread.
Been looking around at some steel hardtails, like a Cotic, Ragley etc. I have some thoughts though.

As for head angle, what angle should I be looking at? Would 65-66 be too slack? As written in topic I'll just use the bike as a one-weapon towards everything the forrest has to offer.

The eternal question, wheel size! I'm 184 cm tall with long legs. Ideally I'd like to get 27.5, but this seems like an impossible task in this category. I'm just really afraid a 29er will feel clumpsy, like wearing too big shoes. I'm also afraid a 26" bike will look like a freaking BMX with me riding around on it. I also don't want to feel, later on, that I missed out on something with the bigger wheels.


Advice on steel hardtails is also much appreciated. A short chainstay would be priority if 29er.

brucie45

I ride a all mountain steel hartail, went with one thats quite rare (check my sig). This is my do it all bike, from DH runs to commuting to work. Its had alot of abuse and a couple of offs but not one problem with the frame. Its comfortable for all day rides and even better for short blasts, the dropper post helps massively.

BTW I am 6ft3 18 stone and ride a large 26er. Although my bike is messured in length not height.

But definately along the lines of the Ragley, 456 or Cotic for you.

ubergn0men

brucie45 wrote:

I ride a all mountain steel hartail, went with one thats quite rare (check my sig). This is my do it all bike, from DH runs to commuting to work. Its had alot of abuse and a couple of offs but not one problem with the frame. Its comfortable for all day rides and even better for short blasts, the dropper post helps massively.

BTW I am 6ft3 18 stone and ride a large 26er. Although my bike is messured in length not height.

But definitely along the lines of the Ragley, 456 or Cotic for you.

Oh man, seeing your bike i stumbled on the new 2014 Commencal. Thought they were only going to be available in alu, but they appear to have a steel version. It's not released yet though, but it looks amazing.

http://www.commencal-store.co.uk/PBSCPr ... D=12501753

EDIT: How's the value of the Commencal, compared to similar bikes?

paulneenan76

You've got a £2k budget, really want to get riding, think you want a hardcore hardtail, but still haven't got you're arse on a bike? You need to get off the pot! Go and test a few bikes and better understand the answers to the questions you've been asking - it will be so much more beneficial and a lot of fun.

The best bike for you is the one you ride

Any of the bikes mentioned are brilliant - but a test is best to see if it works for you

Steel, Carbon, Alu, Titanium, all feel different - go and try

Carbon is tough as feck - if you brake it you won't be riding for a while to care as its likely you'll be in worse state

29ers have their merits - have to try and compare

On one carbon 456 will take 650b, however, it does mess with geo - lots of examples in singletrack forum (Brant wasn't advocating it as it changes bottom bracket height.

There is an Evo 456 Carbon (i thinks its 650b capable) coming but why wait 6 months

You can build up a bike on a budget if you plan, don't go over the top, grab the bargains, chose sensibly.

I ride my carbon456 all day - I did 3 days in Afan recently and chucked myself down all trails including black, and whilst I got fatigued quicker than my mates on 140/150 FS trail bikes, i loved how it performed (covered for my cockiness and lack of talent).

At some point you're going to need to pick a bike or decide its not for you

felix.london

ubergn0men wrote:

Oh man, seeing your bike i stumbled on the new 2014 Commencal. Thought they were only going to be available in alu, but they appear to have a steel version. It's not released yet though, but it looks amazing.

http://www.commencal-store.co.uk/PBSCPr ... D=12501753

EDIT: How's the value of the Commencal, compared to similar bikes?

or in Ti

brucie45

felix.london wrote:

ubergn0men wrote:

Oh man, seeing your bike i stumbled on the new 2014 Commencal. Thought they were only going to be available in alu, but they appear to have a steel version. It's not released yet though, but it looks amazing.

http://www.commencal-store.co.uk/PBSCPr ... D=12501753

EDIT: How's the value of the Commencal, compared to similar bikes?

or in Ti

Now that is one very nice looking bike!!

I don't think the value is brilliant for Commencal bikes, for the money there is certainly better. After loads of research and loads of test rides I just kept going back to the Commencal and I am not sure why. The bike came in at £1350 and I did have a £2k budget so money has been spent wisely on upgrades so that the spec is what I want. The best investment I made was the Reverb.