Solo - Joining a group - Ride London 100
Nickolarse74
Posts: 60
Ride London 100 will be my fourth sportive. I've done Wiggle's South Downs, Ups and Downs and Magnificat, all 80 mile versions, all gold timings. Magnificat most recent 2 weeks ago, completed in 4.44 which included an extended last stop to stretch my legs back into existence.
One thing that helped a lot during Ups + Downs and Magnificat was joining fast groups, although officially I was riding solo. When I joined these groups, I offered to lead when it got to my turn but was ever mindful of the others within the group viewing me as an "outsider". On two occasions in the same Magnificat group, despite keeping roughly the same pace, I looked back to see the group trailing 10 / 15 metres and having to slow down. On another occasion, two French riders were happy leading but unhappy following!
What I want to know, being relatively new to the sport, is whether there's an accepted method of joining / requesting entry to a group and what the general etiquette is, aside from not blowing your nose in somebody's face, especially how one offers to lead and how often do you rotate.
Thanks!
One thing that helped a lot during Ups + Downs and Magnificat was joining fast groups, although officially I was riding solo. When I joined these groups, I offered to lead when it got to my turn but was ever mindful of the others within the group viewing me as an "outsider". On two occasions in the same Magnificat group, despite keeping roughly the same pace, I looked back to see the group trailing 10 / 15 metres and having to slow down. On another occasion, two French riders were happy leading but unhappy following!
What I want to know, being relatively new to the sport, is whether there's an accepted method of joining / requesting entry to a group and what the general etiquette is, aside from not blowing your nose in somebody's face, especially how one offers to lead and how often do you rotate.
Thanks!
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Forgot to say, I'm 5.58 arrival, 6.28 load, 6.58 start and aiming for 6 hours in case some kind souls want an extra group member!0
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perhaps you are unwittingly 'dropping the hammer' when you take your turn?0
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You mustn't assume that the "groups" you see are in anyway formally organised or even know each other. It may well be that there are a few people who do know each other, and are "riding together", but most groups are just random coming togethers of people riding at similar speeds. I tend to aim to get on the back of a group going slightly faster than I am intially comfortable with. If I can get my breath back after the initial surge and get into the rythm i am happy to hang on. If there is some circulation or "through and off", then join in, taking your turn at the front. As above, it is likely that you are "dropping the hammer" when you get to the front. The idea is to keep riding at the same speed as you get to the front, not suddenly giving it your all. Part of the art of riding at the front is keeping an eye on those behind you, and ensuring that they are able to keep your wheel. Short initial turn are best - you don't want those behind to get too used to you pulling them along!
In terms of etiquette, don't forget the hand signals (they're in the magazine), and don't be afraid to talk to people. You'll find that the two people you thought were well practised buddies have only themselves just met.
On these big rides, groups tend to be quite transitory. That is they form and break up as other riders come along and join, or get dropped, or your group sweeps up and swallows a group further up the road. So don't get too attached to anyone group if you feel they are too fast or too slow. And if you do drop from a group, say you need a quick comfort break, don't try too hard to catch back on. There will be anothre group along in a minute!0 -
I'm a 6:54 start, I think most people will be solo, groups might just form naturally. I have never done anything like this before, though.Nickolarse74 wrote:Forgot to say, I'm 5.58 arrival, 6.28 load, 6.58 start and aiming for 6 hours in case some kind souls want an extra group member!Smarter than the average bear.0 -
There are going to be 500 people in your start wave, the first 2 miles are going to be neutralised until you reach the actual start. Once you're over the start line I'd imagine the pace will go up as some people accelerate and everyone else thinks "I'll get a great draft here!" and sits on their wheel. You'll struggle to get past due to the sheer weight of numbers if the pace is too slow, and won't want to drop off if the pace is higher as you're getting towed.
In true sportive form, this will end up with 1 person sitting on the front and all the other lazy sods sat on their wheel, not coming through to help out
Perhaps we'll end up with a continuous line of cyclists around the entire route, with 1 poor soul from the 6am start leading the way! FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
What's the proper way of taking a turn at the front? Is it coming past everyone else from the back, taking up the lead, or is it coming off the front and drifting back to rejoin at the back, leaving the no. 2 guy in front?Is the gorilla tired yet?0
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ChrisAOnABike wrote:What's the proper way of taking a turn at the front? Is it coming past everyone else from the back, taking up the lead, or is it coming off the front and drifting back to rejoin at the back, leaving the no. 2 guy in front?
I believe its the latter of your options.Canyon Endurace CF SL 9.0 Ultegra di2
Reilly Gradient GRX600
Dawes Super Galaxy0 -
With getting on for 20,000 cyclists on the roads its going to be pretty different to your average sportive. People riding in groups will likely come about from just being in the large pack of your starting pen moving off. Even those who intend to try and find their friends to ride with are going to struggle to do so, its just not really geared up to be a kind of ride with your mates type event.
Even though its been designed with your start time being based off when you think you will finish, given how the ballot was randomly drawn, there is a good chance many people put down unrealistic times. As such, there are bound to be people who set off early but aren't that fast, so its going to cause all kinds of different groups of riders to bunch up.
I actually find it hard to even imagine how Sunday is going to work out, but its certainly going to be interesting finding out.0 -
Don't worry about it. Whether you are getting a draught or sitting on the front the critical thing for you is that you are not working harder than you can sustain for the duration.ChrisAOnABike wrote:What's the proper way of taking a turn at the front? Is it coming past everyone else from the back, taking up the lead, or is it coming off the front and drifting back to rejoin at the back, leaving the no. 2 guy in front?
Google 'through and off' and follow some links. But remember you owe no other riders any of your limited resources.
Paul0 -
I have been given a 6:18 start time even though I put down 6 and a half hours on my form :? . So I am probably going to be looking for a tow or two from faster riders passing me!! If I spot anyone from my club coming past I will certainly be hopping on their wheel for a bit!
I suspect they have sprinkled slower riders in and amongst to spread things out, plus 6 hours is the equivalent of putting
If the first 2 miles are neutralized is there a timing mat at the start proper then?0 -
make mine a triple wrote:I suspect they have sprinkled slower riders in and amongst to spread things out, plus 6 hours is the equivalent of putting
Possibly, but more than anything it will be riders themselves who have put down times which are unrealistic which will place people in different starting waves.
I think the other factor is that there are things happening like the Business Relay and Celebrities and any other sponsors or corporate participants that are seeded in somewhere. I would imagine they will start Business Relay participants in early starting waves, even though members doing it might not be particularly fast.0 -
make mine a triple wrote:I have been given a 6:18 start time even though I put down 6 and a half hours on my form :?
I put the same and am starting at 7:58am. That's how jumbled up it will be, so i wouldn't be worried about not finding a partner to tango with.0 -
That's nuts. I put 8 hours, and I've got 7.56.Peat wrote:make mine a triple wrote:I have been given a 6:18 start time even though I put down 6 and a half hours on my form :?
I put the same and am starting at 7:58am. That's how jumbled up it will be, so i wouldn't be worried about not finding a partner to tango with.Is the gorilla tired yet?0 -
It sounds bad, but at the end of the day, they have to get 167 people across the start line every minute. So it was always going to get congested.0
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I put 7 and a quarter and got a 7.58! Just have to suck it and see on SundayPeat wrote:make mine a triple wrote:I have been given a 6:18 start time even though I put down 6 and a half hours on my form :?
I put the same and am starting at 7:58am. That's how jumbled up it will be, so i wouldn't be worried about not finding a partner to tango with.0 -
The start will be chaotic - This is one of the first waves starting at the Etape Caledonia so some of the faster guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN3OHPV5p_k Alot of under and over taking at the beginning and it takes a couple of miles at least for that to settle down. The further back from the start your wave is then the longer this will take i think. After it settles down then it still takes another few miles for the group to start working together.
As for the group riding in a sportive it really varies - some groups are well organised and do things by the book (this will often happen if there are alot of riders from the same club involved), whereas some groups are organised but do things a bit bizarrely and everyone ends up doing the bizarre thing because everyone else is doing it and the benefits of being in the group outweigh the strange shit. However most groups are 1, 2 or 3 riders working hard and 20+ riders sitting in for a free ride.
If you dont feel you have the legs to come through and do your turn then fair enough certainly no shame in that and even the strongest rider on the day will have been in that situation before - but hang at the back out the way and let the riders who are taking a turn fit back in - particularly if there is a paceline. Often roups that are working well together can get disrupted if riders who dont want to / cant go to the front continue to move up the line and then sit second or third wheel and just not come through. Dont be that guy!0 -
Would like to know more about this. I plan on just asking a likely looking bunch maybe have a bit of banter and join on.ChrisAOnABike wrote:What's the proper way of taking a turn at the front? Is it coming past everyone else from the back, taking up the lead, or is it coming off the front and drifting back to rejoin at the back, leaving the no. 2 guy in front?
Omar, what's a paceline? Think I need to try a club!0 -
Peat wrote:It sounds bad, but at the end of the day, they have to get 167 people across the start line every minute. So it was always going to get congested.
I thought about that, but when you look at the Size of the A12 (2x3 lane carriageways) and the fact that they're segregating lanes until after we all emerge from the Limehouse Link tunnel, they might actually have a fighting chance of success with a wide road, and effectively 1.4 riders per second ?
On second thoughts, assuming 4 riders per lane, that's a wave of 16 riders every 10 seconds, provided they achieve perfectly un-chaotic organisation..... BUNFIGHT!!!0 -
One thing i didn't account for was the pedestrian crossing that they are operating. They will cause some pretty severe bunching.
Ah well, it's all good. Looking forward to it.0 -
Oh dear - this is all sounding rather disorganised, making me feel rather anxious about the whole thing. I've joined a club, got used to riding in a group, done a few other (admittedly smaller scale) sportives to try and get a better idea of what to expect for this, but I guess a significant cross section will be completely new to this on the day.
My gut feel is the organisers just tried to cram too much into the Sunday to get maximum use out of the road closures. Maybe they will work out something more realistic for next year? :?0 -
andyeb wrote:Oh dear - this is all sounding rather disorganised, making me feel rather anxious about the whole thing. I've joined a club, got used to riding in a group, done a few other (admittedly smaller scale) sportives to try and get a better idea of what to expect for this, but I guess a significant cross section will be completely new to this on the day.
My gut feel is the organisers just tried to cram too much into the Sunday to get maximum use out of the road closures. Maybe they will work out something more realistic for next year? :?
It's all going to fine 8)0 -
FordCC have 3 groups riding in the team/group starts (I got a solo entry). Two of the teams are starting at 6:58 and the other is 7:46 (the organisers won't explain why they are so far apart, when they all ride the same). They should be easy to spot in the club jerseys: http://www.fordcc.org.uk/
and you'll be fine
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oneof1982 wrote:andyeb wrote:Oh dear - this is all sounding rather disorganised, making me feel rather anxious about the whole thing. I've joined a club, got used to riding in a group, done a few other (admittedly smaller scale) sportives to try and get a better idea of what to expect for this, but I guess a significant cross section will be completely new to this on the day.
My gut feel is the organisers just tried to cram too much into the Sunday to get maximum use out of the road closures. Maybe they will work out something more realistic for next year? :?
It's all going to fine 8)
I hope you are right. Decided I'm going to wear a helmet cam, so I've got a record of the carnage. :shock:0 -
What's the worst that could happen ? I have just been caught in torrential rain and flash floods, as long as that doesn't happen on Sunday it should be ok .Smarter than the average bear.0
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DaveP1 wrote:
Would like to know more about this. I plan on just asking a likely looking bunch maybe have a bit of banter and join on.ChrisAOnABike wrote:What's the proper way of taking a turn at the front? Is it coming past everyone else from the back, taking up the lead, or is it coming off the front and drifting back to rejoin at the back, leaving the no. 2 guy in front?
Omar, what's a paceline? Think I need to try a club!
A paceline is when things are stretched out a bit so at its simplest there will be 1 line of riders, the rider at the front does their turn then pulls off to the side then the next rider comes through, while the rider who was at the front previously drifts to the back of the line to take their place again (This is when, if you feel you wont be able to do a turn yourself, you should just ease off a bit and let a small gap grow in front and allow the rider to rejoin the line in front of you, teling them if necessary). Another type of paceline (and this takes a little more practice) is where there are two lines of riders with the right* side going very slightly faster than the left side and when the rider gets to the front of the right line they move over to the front of the left line and seconds later the person who was behind them will come through and do the same and then be in front.
*in terms of efficiency whether it is right or left depends on the wind, but usually on British roads it will be the right side that is moving up for safety reasons.0 -
I fancy some of that!0
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oneof1982 wrote:In terms of etiquette, don't forget the hand signals (they're in the magazine)
In addition to this for people not use to riding in group or using hand signals, if you see someone in front of you make a hand signal(can be a rider a few bikes ahead), relay it back immediately and react to it. Do not wait for you to see the hazard yourself before performing the signal.
Individuals will be more willing to make a group with someone who they comfortable riding near and this is one of the things to look out for0 -
I hope to ride with a group but most groups you see on sportives are a club or group of friends riding together, joined by a few others. Start times on the 100 will stop that happening. Didn't find any groups on the Etape where there were 13,500 riders. Ok 100 is flatter so more chance of ad hoc groups forming. I certainly hope so!0
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It takes practice to get right and people very often make the mistake of upping the pace when the person in front of them peels off, rather than hold a constant pace. This makes gaps appear in the line, makes it harder for the next person to come through (especially in through and off) and makes it harder for the person who's just done a turn to get back into the line. The only place you should be accelerating is when you re-join the back of the pace-line (or the faster line in through and off).DaveP1 wrote:I fancy some of that!
Like I said, it takes practice and also communication from the riders in the group. Clubs often practice this on training rides and its one of the reasons why club riders are generally better group riders.FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
Wrath Rob wrote:
It takes practice to get right and people very often make the mistake of upping the pace when the person in front of them peels off, rather than hold a constant pace. This makes gaps appear in the line, makes it harder for the next person to come through (especially in through and off) and makes it harder for the person who's just done a turn to get back into the line. The only place you should be accelerating is when you re-join the back of the pace-line (or the faster line in through and off).DaveP1 wrote:I fancy some of that!
Like I said, it takes practice and also communication from the riders in the group. Clubs often practice this on training rides and its one of the reasons why club riders are generally better group riders.
I'd echo all that. I'm a fairly new club rider and it's a lot more difficult than you'd imagine (we practice the latter of the two). When the chap in front pulls left, you have to increase your effort just the right amount to maintain your speed. Too much and you accelerate off the front (and get shouted at), too little and you end up stuck alongside (and get shouted at!). Lots of speedo watching is required until you get the feel for it.
If I end up in a group on Sunday and have any say in the matter we'll be sticking to the first of the two options, it's less efficient but copes better with surges and weak riders.2010 Cannondale CAAD9 Tiagra0
