Could SKY win the big three GTs?
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I wouldn't discount Wiggins (or Porte) for the vuelta necessarily - if he was motivated and in good shape he could win it, he wasn't that far off in 2011 when you consider he was still finding form from a busted collarbone and the mad TTT lost him 45secs, the main loss was the angliru because of over gearing and the crowds causing a hold up after Cobo went through."I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
The field in a Vuelta can be quite weak so yes, it is possible that a motivated Wiggins could win it despite the hills not generally being his type. As long as there is a decent TT in there he could put minutes into a lot of the riders that specialise in those steep climbs. However, I can't imagine Wiggins getting motivated for the Vuelta again. If he seriously rides to win another GT I suspect it will be either the Giro (which he'll have to ride with the B team as I think Froome will want better support in the Tour in future) or the Tour with another team to try to prove a point and beat Froome.0
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Cant see Wiggins doing the Vuelta if he has already stated he's doing ToB + world champs.0
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think this season he's said he isn't riding the Vuelta anyway. Not sure if he will be motivated enough in future to do a GT but take that out of his palmares and what will his targets be for next season ?0
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sherer wrote:think this season he's said he isn't riding the Vuelta anyway. Not sure if he will be motivated enough in future to do a GT but take that out of his palmares and what will his targets be for next season ?
Well, his own plan after last year was to try to win the Giro and P-R then possibly get back to the track squad for 2016. I think the latter would be a mistake, the Olympic track squad should be for the talented youngsters as they come through before stepping up to the pro road scene. If he is considering retirement when his current contract expires then I would have thought the Hour Record would be the obvious last hurrah. It might take as much training effort as the Tour did but he would be able to train in Manchester and still see his family every day.0 -
Pross wrote:sherer wrote:think this season he's said he isn't riding the Vuelta anyway. Not sure if he will be motivated enough in future to do a GT but take that out of his palmares and what will his targets be for next season ?
Well, his own plan after last year was to try to win the Giro and P-R then possibly get back to the track squad for 2016. I think the latter would be a mistake, the Olympic track squad should be for the talented youngsters as they come through before stepping up to the pro road scene. If he is considering retirement when his current contract expires then I would have thought the Hour Record would be the obvious last hurrah. It might take as much training effort as the Tour did but he would be able to train in Manchester and still see his family every day.
Can't see him as the type of rider that could win P-R, can't remember off the top of my head any one day races he has dne well in. What's his record like in one days ?
Hour is a target but then why would Team Sky pay for him to do that, same as track riding it's all non Team Sky stuff. You can see why they said pre-tour they were going with Froome, he has far more potential long term0 -
sherer wrote:Pross wrote:sherer wrote:think this season he's said he isn't riding the Vuelta anyway. Not sure if he will be motivated enough in future to do a GT but take that out of his palmares and what will his targets be for next season ?
Well, his own plan after last year was to try to win the Giro and P-R then possibly get back to the track squad for 2016. I think the latter would be a mistake, the Olympic track squad should be for the talented youngsters as they come through before stepping up to the pro road scene. If he is considering retirement when his current contract expires then I would have thought the Hour Record would be the obvious last hurrah. It might take as much training effort as the Tour did but he would be able to train in Manchester and still see his family every day.
Can't see him as the type of rider that could win P-R, can't remember off the top of my head any one day races he has dne well in. What's his record like in one days ?
Hour is a target but then why would Team Sky pay for him to do that, same as track riding it's all non Team Sky stuff. You can see why they said pre-tour they were going with Froome, he has far more potential long term
Same sponsor - Sky - sponsor GB track. Whether its road kit or track kit, tarmac or wooden boards, BMX or MTB, the name Sky is splashed all over the kit. Its not a completely different Sky, you know, just a separate line item in BSKyB's marketing budget.
My sense is that Brailsord and co really want him to ride next year's Tour in support of Froome. And to be fair the publicity coming from 2 British Tour winners lining up together in Leeds, would be massive.
It could go any way. Wiggins might want out of his contract a year early ie end of this year, and retire from the road. He and Sky might be OK with him seeing out the final year on his existing contract. Everyone inc him might end up being OK with him going for P-R.
Re the Hour. The UCI put it on its deathbed. IF the guff about Cancellara tackling the Hour is more than guff, the right marketing and publicity around a dual attack on the record by both Cancellara and Wiggins, accompanied by a massive campaign to raise awareness of the Hour record to new fans to cycling, ould actually end up being very attractive to Sky...0 -
Nothing much. He's finished in the first main bunch in Paris-Roubaix twice, 6 min. behind the winner. Even less in Vlaanderen. He's been 2nd in the Lincoln GPsherer wrote:Can't see him as the type of rider that could win P-R, can't remember off the top of my head any one day races he has dne well in. What's his record like in one days ?
Suggesting he could turn up and win it, as some sort of easy option compared to all the TdF sacrifices I'd find a bit insulting to be honest. But hey, I'm all for grand tour favourites taking the classics seriously, so if he gives it a real go, credit to him0 -
He hasn't suggested it's an easy option compared to all the TdF sacrifices. It has been suggested that he struggles to make the kind of sacrifices that winning top events demands, that targeting Roubaix might give him the necessary motivation to make them in a way that targeting "another" tour de france cannot, and that it isn't a totally bonkers idea to at least try because he can put out the kind of power than Boonen and Cancellara put out to win it. I think Sutton did all this suggesting. I don't know to what extent he was speaking on behalf of Wiggins v. idly speculating.FJS wrote:
Nothing much. He's finished in the first main bunch in Paris-Roubaix twice, 6 min. behind the winner. Even less in Vlaanderen. He's been 2nd in the Lincoln GPsherer wrote:Can't see him as the type of rider that could win P-R, can't remember off the top of my head any one day races he has dne well in. What's his record like in one days ?
Suggesting he could turn up and win it, as some sort of easy option compared to all the TdF sacrifices I'd find a bit insulting to be honest. But hey, I'm all for grand tour favourites taking the classics seriously, so if he gives it a real go, credit to him0 -
Going off memory but the last time (I think) 2 GT's were won by the same team was 2005 when Discovery took the Giro with Salvoldelli and then the Tour with Armstrong.
If Sky aim at all three then they will need to retain the services of Uran at the least who, with a few tweaks to the team that supported him, could potentially win that race.
Froome goes for the Tour but the issue with Porte/Vuelta is the same as happened to Froome last year. Froome was 2nd in the Tour but knackered by the Vuelta so you would need to have a third option so you are back to Wiggins or maybe get someone like Hesjedal or Ten Dam in and back them.0 -
avoidingmyphd wrote:
He hasn't suggested it's an easy option compared to all the TdF sacrifices. It has been suggested that he struggles to make the kind of sacrifices that winning top events demands, that targeting Roubaix might give him the necessary motivation to make them in a way that targeting "another" tour de france cannot, and that it isn't a totally bonkers idea to at least try because he can put out the kind of power than Boonen and Cancellara put out to win it. I think Sutton did all this suggesting. I don't know to what extent he was speaking on behalf of Wiggins v. idly speculating.FJS wrote:
Nothing much. He's finished in the first main bunch in Paris-Roubaix twice, 6 min. behind the winner. Even less in Vlaanderen. He's been 2nd in the Lincoln GPsherer wrote:Can't see him as the type of rider that could win P-R, can't remember off the top of my head any one day races he has dne well in. What's his record like in one days ?
Suggesting he could turn up and win it, as some sort of easy option compared to all the TdF sacrifices I'd find a bit insulting to be honest. But hey, I'm all for grand tour favourites taking the classics seriously, so if he gives it a real go, credit to him
Wiggins himself said it was a possible future target at the end of his bio.
FJS no-one is suggesting it's an easy option but a race that the honour of winning may offer the reward for the work that would be required. Wiggins himself highlights it as a stand out race that he would love to have against his name. That said, as with any one day race you only get one shot at getting it right so it becomes less controllable than a stage race where you can hopefully recoup any losses from minor mishaps like crashes or mechanicals. However, if he went into it in his top form then I see no reason why he couldn't ride it in a similar way to Cancellara and I suspect that he is capable of putting out a decent enough sprint against a Cancellara type rider if not someone like Boonen or Sagan. Add to that he knows his way around a velodrome! As with any Classic win though it will require good tactical nous as well as excellent form and an element of good fortune. I'd love to see him give it a go but then I'd like to see Sky taking all the Classics as seriously as they take stage races.0 -
Nice, not going to happen though.0
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greasedscotsman wrote:Nice, not going to happen though.
Why not? I'd have thought Wiggins is a classier rider than some who have won P-R. A Wiggins / Cancellara two up attack from 50km out and then having them head to head on the track would be superb I can dream can't I?0 -
I never understood why Millar didn't have more of a go at the classics, Wiggins is another who has what it takes to be competitive - with both I think it's more a case of they had other targets.
I still think it's crazy that Wiggins is being written off as a stage racer though 12 months after winning so many stage races. I think he is a rider that needs others around him to believe in him, rather than being motivated by wanting to beat the other guy in the way say an Armstrong was. Right now Armstrong would be doubling his training (and epo intake) to knock Froome off his perch, Wiggo seems to be suffering a crisis of self belief. I mean he's a Tour champion telling us inpublic he's not a great climber ! Sky don't seem bothered as it suits them to concentrate on one leader - Bradley needs a new team.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Of course you can dream. But it seems to me that your agrument is that Wiggins can win Paris Roubaix because he can ride a good TT like Fabian Cancellara. So does that mean Tony Martin can now win it as well? And Chris Froome ain't bad either...Pross wrote:I'd have thought Wiggins is a classier rider than some who have won P-R.
Such as?0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Of course you can dream. But it seems to me that your agrument is that Wiggins can win Paris Roubaix because he can ride a good TT like Fabian Cancellara. So does that mean Tony Martin can now win it as well? And Chris Froome ain't bad either...Pross wrote:I'd have thought Wiggins is a classier rider than some who have won P-R.
Such as?
Backstedt, for starters
(soz Big Maggy)0 -
Ouch! A bit harsh I think. A quick check shows he did finish 7th a Roubaix in 1998 and he did out sprint Cancellara to win in 2004.0
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Richmond Racer wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:Of course you can dream. But it seems to me that your agrument is that Wiggins can win Paris Roubaix because he can ride a good TT like Fabian Cancellara. So does that mean Tony Martin can now win it as well? And Chris Froome ain't bad either...Pross wrote:I'd have thought Wiggins is a classier rider than some who have won P-R.
Such as?
Backstedt, for starters
(soz Big Maggy)
Or more to the point Guesdon, Knaven, Van Summeren. OK in the case of Knaven and van Summeren they are / were more cobbled classic specialists but I don't think anyone could argue that they are more physically gifted than Wiggins? The specialised nature of P-R is likely to be Wiggins biggest obstacle if he does decide to have a serious crack, I'm not sure how good he is at riding efficiently on cobbles.0 -
Pross wrote:Or more to the point Guesdon, Knaven, Van Summeren. OK in the case of Knaven and van Summeren they are / were more cobbled classic specialists but I don't think anyone could argue that they are more physically gifted than Wiggins? The specialised nature of P-R is likely to be Wiggins biggest obstacle if he does decide to have a serious crack, I'm not sure how good he is at riding efficiently on cobbles.
That's it really. I don't think it's about being more gifted, but both Knaven and Van Summeren (not so sure about Guesdon) were/are experienced classics riders. Knaven started and finished Roubaix 16 times and Van Summeren had another two top ten finishes along with his win. So it's hardly a suprise when they do win something like Paris Roubaix. What have you got to go on with Wiggins? He's started 5 and finished 3 with a highest placing of 25th. I just don't see it.
OK, you could argue Wiggins didn't have any GT GC results before his 4th (or was it 3rd) at the Tour in 2009. But based on his previous results at Roubaix, I don't see why people are so convinced he can win.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Of course you can dream. But it seems to me that your agrument is that Wiggins can win Paris Roubaix because he can ride a good TT like Fabian Cancellara. So does that mean Tony Martin can now win it as well? And Chris Froome ain't bad either...
I asked about Tony Martin and P-R on this forum before. Some wise poster said that in an interview with Rouleur, Tony Martin said he hated riding on cobbles so had no interest in trying.0 -
Aaah, but being able to sustain a high level of power for an hour or so in a time trial is different to having to put out a lot of power for more than six hours, over cobbles, with a lot of sprinting and recovering not to mention the tactics that take place in a race like Roubaix.
It's not impossible but I think he is too old to turn his hand to it now. He'd have to put a bit of timber on as well.0 -
Milton50 wrote:Aaah, but being able to sustain a high level of power for an hour or so in a time trial is different to having to put out a lot of power for more than six hours, over cobbles, with a lot of sprinting and recovering not to mention the tactics that take place in a race like Roubaix.
It's not impossible but I think he is too old to turn his hand to it now. He'd have to put a bit of timber on as well.
Think putting on the timber over the off-season would be the least of it. Getting down to 69kg for the Tour the last few years has been the tough challenge.0
