So how can they change the Green jersey points in the tour?
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No-one complained when Cav won it under these rules so it's just how it goes ...
I think it's a case of a British-centric forum used to being spoiled ... They changed the points to suit Cav, he won ... They heavily altered the route to suit Wiggins, he won ... Not the organiser's fault if these wins can't be backed up or even bothered to be defended ...0 -
You're obsessed with this nationality thing! Don't dispute the forum is brit centric but for many /most of us have followed cycling during periods with nominal / no UK interest and yet still followed so think somewhat beyond solely British interests. Stop implying / stating that's all anybody is concerned with.Crankbrother wrote:No-one complained when Cav won it under these rules so it's just how it goes ...
I think it's a case of a British-centric forum used to being spoiled ... They changed the points to suit Cav, he won ... They heavily altered the route to suit Wiggins, he won ... Not the organiser's fault if these wins can't be backed up or even bothered to be defended ...
They always tweak the competitions, including GC. 2012 was unquestionably skewed to favour Brad. The parcours suited an anticipated Cadel vs Wiggins GC battle. The parcours in 2010 were designed to promote a close contest between AC and AS. Am I repeating myself? They are always designing the parcours with a mind to what will hopefully stimulate a close GC battle. This is done with close consideration for who the likely key protagonists will be (by French people (if that matters)). The points is the same, Hushovd vs Cav produced a great rivalry. The competition will get tweaked not because Sagan was undeserving but because ASO will want it to be more competitive.0 -
I'd definitely like the green jersey winner to win more than one stage - and he would have won it even without that win - but there's no need for drastic change.
A little bit more weight to stage wins maybe; 45-35-30-26-22-20 is a bit too rewarding for 2nd to 6th imo. Intermediate points seemed a little high, and while they brought a brief surge of excitement on the dull days, truthfully they weren't that competitive.0 -
markhewitt1978 wrote:RideOnTime wrote:Has anyone got the list of stage winners?
I can't find one.
It feels like Sagan won more than one stage to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Tour_de_France#Stages one stage!
If purely going off wins Kittel would have won it easily.
The Germans have it boxed!!
I don't know why but I have been thinking all Tour that Kittel was French. Don't know why. He looks very German. I think it's been his blue shoes.0 -
i say leave it as it is, winning a stage is a massive thing, if you win 2,3,4 in a year you will be wanted by everyone, they don't need the added incentive of the green jersey. As it is it puts a different dimension to the race, such as the stage where cannondale smashed it.0
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Introduce a simple rule, anyone who dyes any part of their body green instantly loses all their points. While we're at it, a similar rule regarding polkadot shorts in the KOM competition wouldn't be amiss.0
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maillot vert
victoire d'étape
à la fois bon
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The jersey should be for consistency but the balance does seem out this year as Sagan won by a long way and Cav was second despite having a poor Tour by his standard and Sagan not being very prominent other than on one stage. It makes little sense having intermediate sprints either if rewarding consistency. Another issue is that crashes in the finish can disproportionately affect the outcome, Sagan was miles clear within a couple of days due to others getting held up in crashes - the battle for yellow though is effectively neutralised in the event of late crashes. They even gave everyone the same time on stage 1 when a crash occurred outside the usual 3km.
To encourage more aggressive, exciting riding they ought to make the combativity award more meaningful.0 -
Crankbrother wrote:No-one complained when Cav won it under these rules so it's just how it goes ...
I think it's a case of a British-centric forum used to being spoiled ... They changed the points to suit Cav, he won ... They heavily altered the route to suit Wiggins, he won ... Not the organiser's fault if these wins can't be backed up or even bothered to be defended ...
Cav didn't win it under these rules, they changed the rules in 2012 after he won it. He also didn't deserve to win this year as he lacked consistency. Kittel should have at least be in contention with 3 wins but wasn't, slightly unpatriotic of me to suggest a German probably deserved to be in with a shout though.....
Edit my mistake the rules changed in 2011. Point on this year stands though.0 -
Pross wrote:
To encourage more aggressive, exciting riding they ought to make the combativity award more meaningful.
How?0 -
RideOnTime wrote:Pross wrote:
To encourage more aggressive, exciting riding they ought to make the combativity award more meaningful.
How?
Better prize money or UCI points?0 -
One of the problems this year was that the best sprinter declined to go for the intermediate sprints (perhaps a reason why he became best sprinter).
The intermediate sprints used to be more numerous but with a small number of points - all won by the break away. Now there's one a day but with big points you have to go for them - no chance of getting involved in the competition after a couple of stages, you need to commit from stage 1.
So with this in mind I would reduce the significance of the intermediates a little - perhaps down to top 10 with 15 for the winner rather than top 15 with 20 for the winner as is now. Just a little tweak, but it may make a change for the better.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Pross wrote:Crankbrother wrote:No-one complained when Cav won it under these rules so it's just how it goes ...
I think it's a case of a British-centric forum used to being spoiled ... They changed the points to suit Cav, he won ... They heavily altered the route to suit Wiggins, he won ... Not the organiser's fault if these wins can't be backed up or even bothered to be defended ...
Cav didn't win it under these rules, they changed the rules in 2012 after he won it. He also didn't deserve to win this year as he lacked consistency. Kittel should have at least be in contention with 3 wins but wasn't, slightly unpatriotic of me to suggest a German probably deserved to be in with a shout though.....
Edit my mistake the rules changed in 2011. Point on this year stands though.
Kittel won 4 stages.0 -
As Pross later recognised, they changed the rules in 2011, not 2012. And much to Cav’s benefit.Pross wrote:
Cav didn't win it under these rules, they changed the rules in 2012 after he won it.Crankbrother wrote:No-one complained when Cav won it under these rules so it's just how it goes ...
Edit, my mistake, the rules changed in 2011.
Under the old system Cavendish ‘might’ still have won green but not with a 60+ pt margin ahead of Rojas, rather only about 30 pts. I only say ‘might’ because with the old system Rojas, not Cavendish, would have gone into the last stage in green, by about 3 pts. That meant Cavendish had to win or finish at least two places higher than Rojas on the Champs-Elysees to take green. But for Cav to snatch green on the last stage may not have gone down well, given that nowadays there is a non-attacking agreement about the jerseys on the last day. With the new system, he didn't have this dilemma.
(For the record, Cav did win on the Champs-Elysees, and Rojas only came in 21st)
That year they also changed the KOM pts, in order to reduce the possibility of a not-top-class climber winning the KOM prize by virtue of being in breaks until the last climb (as Charteau had done in 2010).0 -
I know it is supposedly a jersey for consistency but in reality the yellow jersey rewards consistency as you can't really afford any bad days. The green jersey rewards the most consistent 'sprinter' due to the way the points are skewed to flatter stages. However, for me two of the most consistent riders at the Tour in terms of placings over all stages this year were Kwiatowski and Bakelants and they were nowhere in the points classification.
People say the Giro system makes it another jersey for the GC riders but Cav won it this year and came as close as possible last year despite a few mishaps in early sprint stages so maybe that is a better system in terms of making the competition more wide ranging? You'll never get a perfect system though and winning stages is reward in itself.0 -
Correct me if in wrong, but isn't the green jersey known as points classification, and not a sprinters jersey. The giro, for example, could've seen nibali or Evans win the red jersey had Mark not competed.
Maybe those intermediate sprints should only exist on flat stages and not after a cat-2 hill which would inevitably work to Sagans strengths.
At least the Polka dot was actually won by the best climber or one of..0
