Newbie with double - should I have gone triple?

zedzed

Hi there,

Bought a 2nd hand Spec. Allez double (2009/2010, I think) for a decent price. Been out on it a few times - and I'm really struggling with any "climbs" (make that "hills") that are reasonably long or very steep. I approach the hills at reasonable speed but when I start to slow down I head down to my lowest gear and, well, it's still a real effort get keep the legs turning and the thighs really, really burn! I hate to admit it, but once or twice I had to stop and walk for a short while :oops:

I'm pretty much a cycling beginner (although I've cycled 40km in 2.5 hours along canal paths on my MTB a few times recently) .... but I'm wondering if I've made a mistake buying the "double" - as I understand that means my gearing probably doesn't go as low as a triple?

Given I could probably sell the Alez for what I paid for it, would people recommend I switch to a triple for a few years until I build up the power in my legs? Alternatively - what can I do to strengthen my legs between outings so I don't have the embarrassment of pushing my bike up a hill!?

p.s.Apart from the canal I live in a hilly area - so I can't just do "flat runs" until my legs improve

frisbee

It won't take long till you can grind up any hill. It's just a case of getting the miles in, your power will go up, your weight will go down and you'll learn to pace yourself at the start of the hill.

Druidor

Compact 105 set here with two at the front. Tbh after a few rides where I was using the essy gearing in hills all the time. I now hardly go to those any more and go up sat down without feeling like I am about to die/come to a halt snd walk.

Preserve with what you have and after a few weeks you will be flying up hills and thinking what all the fuss was about.

zedzed

Thanks for the advice ... I'll give it a few more goes and see how I get on ... hopefully the power will come!

stueys

Check the casette, you might have a 25 as your lowest gear. Swapping to a 27 or 28 will make an appreciable difference and would be all you need to get up anything.

skyd0g

You'll probably find your Allez is a 'compact' (50/34) on the front chainrings, not a standard 'double' (53 or 52/39) and a 12-25 on the rear.

Keep at the hills, they will get easier as your strength & fitness improves. If after some time you're still having to walk, then consider a rear cassette with a 27/28 big cog.

surfatwork

I agree -keep at it and you will soon be wondering what the fuss was all about. I started cycling a few months back, and used to find a couple of "hills" quite challenging. Far easier now and I am now trying out climbs I wouldnt even have dreamt about earlier.

VTech

I had the same issue as you.
I changed to a compact set and that made a huge difference but I can get up cat4 hills now where I had to walk before.
I can do 40-60k rides without stopping and my speeds go up weekly (of course mainly as I'm still new to this)
You will get faster.

ct8282

Beginner here, 2 months in and bought a Giant with double standard gears. Never heard of compact or knew I could choose a compact gear set. First time I went up my fave hill which hits 20% (but is very short) I was in my granny gear and thought I was going to die. I then went through all the same thoughts as you are now but being a stubborn bugger I decided I would stick with it and work hard. 2 months later I can fly up that hill without the granny gear and I wonder what the fuss was about.

Keep going and the improvements will come fast.

markhewitt1978

zedzed wrote:

Hi there,

Bought a 2nd hand Spec. Allez double (2009/2010, I think) for a decent price. Been out on it a few times - and I'm really struggling with any "climbs" (make that "hills") that are reasonably long or very steep. I approach the hills at reasonable speed but when I start to slow down I head down to my lowest gear and, well, it's still a real effort get keep the legs turning and the thighs really, really burn! I hate to admit it, but once or twice I had to stop and walk for a short while :oops:

I'm pretty much a cycling beginner (although I've cycled 40km in 2.5 hours along canal paths on my MTB a few times recently) .... but I'm wondering if I've made a mistake buying the "double" - as I understand that means my gearing probably doesn't go as low as a triple?

Given I could probably sell the Alez for what I paid for it, would people recommend I switch to a triple for a few years until I build up the power in my legs? Alternatively - what can I do to strengthen my legs between outings so I don't have the embarrassment of pushing my bike up a hill!?

p.s.Apart from the canal I live in a hilly area - so I can't just do "flat runs" until my legs improve

Firstly you're legs will improve, uphill cycling muscles are pretty specific so you will struggle to start with.

But firstly we need to know your gear ratios, specifically your bottom gear. This will be the number of teeth on the smallest front ring and the number on the biggest rear. Once we have those numbers we can advise you on the best course.

Usually you won't need a triple, especially as you'd need to change your shifters, however changing the cassette to one with a bigger cog or the front crankset is doable.

To give you an example, my front is 34 and my rear is 30.

Daz555

Do you have a double or a compact double?

If you have a standard double then I'd say you need to get it changed. If it is a compact then stick with it.

I have a triple and I'm glad of it at times but I only have one because my bike came with one - I'd have been happy with a compact.

napoleond

Don't worry about changing anything, just keep riding and plugging away and you'll soon be fitter and looking back at this thread and seeing his far youve come. My first road bike had standard 53/39 and 12/25 I never knew any different so I just kept hammering it!

Edit- I suppose what I'm trying to say is HTFU.

ct8282

NapoleonD wrote:

Don't worry about changing anything, just keep riding and plugging away and you'll soon be fitter and looking back at this thread and seeing his far youve come. My first road bike had standard 53/39 and 12/25 I never knew any different so I just kept hammering it!

Edit- I suppose what I'm trying to say is HTFU.

+1.

I'm in the same boat. Don't spend any money. Just work hard.

cougie

Unless you're er big boned or going touring - I don't see the need for triples. I'd persevere at it and with practice you will improve.

If you're crap at hills - keep practicing them.

Daz555

NapoleonD wrote:

Edit- I suppose what I'm trying to say is HTFU.

Depends. For some "HTFU" on a standard double would result in knees turning to dust.

napoleond

Daz555 wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

Edit- I suppose what I'm trying to say is HTFU.

Depends. For some "HTFU" on a standard double would result in knees turning to dust.

Only if they have knee issues and/or a bad fit. A 39/27 is pretty similar to a 34/25. Only a couple of inches in it. (Where have I heard that before? :shock: )

simona75

I've got a 2009 Allez double. If its the same entry level one as I have (2300 8 speed) then its a 53/39 with 12-25 on the back (if still standard). I found this far too brutal for steeper climbs and I'm not surprised you are struggling. I would try and switch the cassette to something more forgiving

markhewitt1978

simona75 wrote:

I've got a 2009 Allez double. If its the same entry level one as I have (2300 8 speed) then its a 53/39 with 12-25 on the back (if still standard). I found this far too brutal for steeper climbs and I'm not surprised you are struggling. I would try and switch the cassette to something more forgiving

If that's the case to illustrate, 39/25 gives a ratio of 1.56. Whereas my bottom gear is 34/30 = 1.13.
To get the equivalent of 39/25 I'm half way through the cassette while on the little ring.

Jim C

Shimano triples- 50 39 30 (or a non standard 28, for evening greater wall climbing ability- Hardknott, Asterton Bank, Dolgellau youth hostel approach road, etc) work like a dream. They're generally not sensitive to set up. Don't use big big or small small. In fact, keep it in mostly middle ring on rolling terrain, where U will have all the rear sprockets available.

My audax bike has a triple, has done 30,000miles plus since 2006 and never misses a beat. The only downside is night riding, when im not sure if its in what ring in the pitch black- so I mostly leave it in middle ring

Triples are fantastic - for new and experienced riders. Very popular on the continent too.

zedzed

simona75 wrote:

I've got a 2009 Allez double. If its the same entry level one as I have (2300 8 speed) then its a 53/39 with 12-25 on the back (if still standard). I found this far too brutal for steeper climbs and I'm not surprised you are struggling. I would try and switch the cassette to something more forgiving

I've checked it and it's as this spec. - a standard (2009) double. I might see how much I could get for it selling it - but I'll also check with the LBS to see what they'd charge to change the gearing to something lower (without replacing everything!). In the mean time I'll take the "MTFU advice" (had to look that one up!) and make sure I go out 3 or 4 times this week to start getting those legs better!

markhewitt1978

You will struggle with 39/25 on anything other than moderate hills. Get it swapped out for 28 or 30T

cedargreen

OnYourRight wrote:

Triple chainsets are a nuisance if you don’t strictly need them – especially the Shimano variety with indexed shifting relying on judiciously placed ramps and pins rather than old-fashioned overshifting. They’re very sensitive to setup, and chain rub is inevitable in several gears.

Separately, the large chainrings in Shimano triples tend to be too big and the middle ones too small, so you’re forever shifting between the big and middle rings in rolling terrain.

While the pros/ cons of a triple aren't really relevant to the OP, I had to respond to this as it's possibly the biggest load of twaddle yet written about triples- and there's quite a lot of that about.

Triples are not a nuisance; as someone on here pointed out, a compact is just a triple without the most useful (middle) ring. Shimano index shifting works just fine, is not 'sensitive to set up' and chain rub is only present when cross-chaining, which will happen with any derailleur transmission. And no, the big rings are not too big (52- same as a standard double) and the middle ring (40) from which you can reach most of the rear sprockets, is ideal for rolling terrain. I have a strong suspicion that most of the anti-triple comments are from people who've never ridden one and look down on them because they think they belong on touring or mountain bikes.

A triple gives you a huge range of gears while allowing close ratios on the rear sprocket. You don't need to change at the front as often because the middle ring is fine most of the time. I've never had any problems with Sora or Ultegra triples. The manufacturers are supplying more bikes with compacts because it's a cheaper spec, not because it's better. Lots of riders, not just beginners would benefit from a triple.

Anonymous

OP needs to get a compact IMO.

A lot of people early on in this thread have said to stick at it (which I agree with), but I think some maybe thought it was a double not a compact at that point.

If the OP gets a triple he will always have a really low gear and probably end up relying on it.
If he gets a compact and keeps the 12-25 he will be more likely to put the work in.

I have just gone from a 12-25 to an 11-28 temporarily as insurance for the hills in RLS100 and I find myself using it on normal rides just because it is there.
After RLS100 I am putting a 12-23 on and just toughing it out

Triples are for touring and people who have real issues with changing gears IMO.
I am not knocking them but just feel they are a niche market and often unnecessarily used on a lot of peoples road bikes.

Mikey23

I think there was a similar post recently by a new to cycling spesh allez user who was struggling on 39/25 ... Correct me if I'm wrong

I think it's a little strange to have this combo on a bike which seems to be aimed at comparatively inexperienced riders unless they live in flat terrain. If I had this when I first started down here in Cornwall, I would have given up cycling fairly quickly and not known that there were alternatives

simona75

Mikey23 wrote:

I think there was a similar post recently by a new to cycling spesh allez user who was struggling on 39/25 ... Correct me if I'm wrong

I think it's a little strange to have this combo on a bike which seems to be aimed at comparatively inexperienced riders unless they live in flat terrain. If I had this when I first started down here in Cornwall, I would have given up cycling fairly quickly and not known that there were alternatives

I agree, when I got mine in 09 I had little idea about gear ratios but changed the cassette within a couple of weeks. I think the entry level Allez now comes with a compact?

Jim C

^^^^ a few posts ago from Cedargreen. Excellent post :-)
Says pretty much what I would have said, but I don't have the patience.

No reason why U couldn't put a 46 on a triple. Have done that before- works excellently if U don't need top end gears. And retains the 28 or 30 little ring for whenever its required. Whilst keeping the 39 for 80% of riding.

Terrific stuff about who triples are most suitable for , made me :-)

Daz555

My bike came with a triple and to be honest I was not bothered either way about a compact or a triple. Having said that, I'm now glad I have the triple. I've been back into riding after a long long break and even 6 months on there are a few climbs near me that I'd still be walking up were it not for the triple - and I hate walking!

At the end of the day though each to their own. I really don't like to read posts telling others what triples are for - hilarious. It is simple - they are for those who want to use them.

markhewitt1978

On a slightly unrelated point - Some MTB's are now going to having singles, given that the availability of large numbers of rear cogs isn't a problem, removing shifting entirely from the front ring presents quite a few advantages.

tetley10

Gt a triple on my Cube Peloton. No bother to me and now very rarely use the smallest ring.

Ed-tron

Im new, only 8 months into cycling, and have a SRAM APEX compact double (50-34, 11-32). Some sportives, yet to join a club.

It occurred to me the other day, as someone cruised past me in a massive gear on the flat, if me having my compact double and being able to spin fairly nicely up some hills (cardio), where others in normal gearings might have to power up in a bigger gear, has hindered my power development?

After watching the TdF, and all the talk of Stannard being strong on the flat and drilling it along, I began to reflect on my own development. Though I know I shouldn't compare with other randoms when out on a ride

So in short, does compact gearing stunt the development of strength/ power as you don't need to turn as big a gear on the hills?

Anonymous

Daz555 wrote:

My bike came with a triple and to be honest I was not bothered either way about a compact or a triple. Having said that, I'm now glad I have the triple. I've been back into riding after a long long break and even 6 months on there are a few climbs near me that I'd still be walking up were it not for the triple - and I hate walking!

At the end of the day though each to their own. I really don't like to read posts telling others what triples are for - hilarious. It is simple - they are for those who want to use them.

Hi, out of interest, what is your lowest gear combo?

I would question what you said about needing to walk up hills were it not for the triple as I would have thought you could have had as low a gear (ok but without such close ratios) with a compact, and in my experience you just rely on low gears anyway.

Most people would be fine (you said yourself that you were not bothered) with a slightly tougher compact. My mates not great on hills but his 11-32 Apex is fine, and much better for him than a triple would be IMO.

I have got no desire to tell people what to get other than to help them.
The OP asked a question on a forum and I think its fair to give my actual thoughts on it if it helps the OP.

There seems to be a lot of anger from triple owners. I would not care if anyone said what they thought compacts were for. Why are triple owners so bothered?

Its not as simple as saying triples are for people who want to use them because those people must want to use them for a reason, and without knowing that reason its not helping the OP with his question/thread.