Froome doping or not?

qwe123

Hey. Do you think Froome is doped?

Froome was with in an interview after the 18th stage. Listen to it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2XE6vyKq_4

jeepie1999

I can't imagine Murdoch ever being associated with dirty tricks.

qwe123

I just think that it is very mysterious that he is so much better than the other classification riders. He sprints of course up the mountains.

bigmat

There's a thread on this over in Pro Race section - take a look. For the record, I think not but can't be sure. Its a bit pathetic people making allegations when there is NO evidence that he is dirty though. Somebody has to be the best, if you automatically assume that person is a cheat then why waste your time watching?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Awesome. First post from a new poster, and it's a question about whether the leader of the Tour is doping.

Obvious troll is obvious.

OP: assume Froome *is* doping. Now run your finger down the GC. Who's the first rider you to who isn't doping?

Bustacapp

qwe123 wrote:

I just think that it is very mysterious that he is so much better than the other classification riders. He sprints of course up the mountains.

Yes because it's not feasible to be 'so much better' than the opposition without cheating? Leonardo Da Vinci was obviously doping too.

You sound like a bitter Frenchman to be honest.

bompington

Bustacapp wrote:

qwe123 wrote:

I just think that it is very mysterious that he is so much better than the other classification riders. He sprints of course up the mountains.

Yes because it's not feasible to be 'so much better' than the opposition without cheating? Leonardo Da Vinci was obviously doping too.

You sound like a bitter Frenchman to be honest.

For some reason I can't quite LAy a finger on, a LArge proportion of bitter people LAbelling Sky as dopers appear to be American ;-)

squired

Is he really so much better? Based on power information from Sky he has apparently been at the same level since 2011. So arguably, certain riders have fallen below his level, while he remained static. One only has to look at Contador this year. He is a shadow of the rider we saw in the past, as are various others like Andy Schleck.

I think it would be fair to say that Quintana is very close to the level of Froome and he is very young, so is likely to improve further (while Froome is possibly at his absolute peak now).

London_Falcon

I believe Froome is clean, as was Wiggo last year. And surely a large part of the reason they are winning at the moment is the back-up that the Sky team gives them. Richie Porte would be a GC contender for most teams, he's awesome.

DonDaddyD

When Bradley Wiggins was quizzed about doping last year he said (or words to the effect).

"It's not like I'm some guy who has come out of nowhere..."

And I look at Chris Froome and I think... who was this guy when he was 23 - 25? While Bradders was tearing up the track, TT scene and showing promise on the road where was Chris Froome, because if his performances, now, are anything to go by he almost as good a time trialist as Wiggins and an even better climber - surely that level of potential would have been noticed and spoken up?

Still, supicions aside, I don't think he is doping.

rolf_f

Schleck has deteriorated, veggy Contador isn't what he was, Cadel Evans is a shadow of his former self. Maybe the competition isn't quite up to the standard of previous years - anyone who is very good themselves and maintaining form against a crumbling opposition is going to give the impression that they have mysteriously leapt forward even if the actual data says they haven't.

DonDaddyD

Counter point.

After Wiggins finished fourth/third in the Tour - he trained to be able to respond to Contador's (who even I'm thinking was doped up in previous years) attacks in the mountains during that Tour. We can speculate, quite safely I think, that Team Sky train to surpass the performance levels of the very best in the peloton. However, the very best were doped up. Without the dope those riders now look average and are unable to achieve those high performance levels, whereas Team Sky who pushed the performance limits naturally can, making them look like dopers.

I liken this to Ben Johnson, when he ran it forced all the other Sprinters like Linford (who was, is and will always be clean) to run faster.

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

When Bradley Wiggins was quizzed about doping last year he said (or words to the effect).

"It's not like I'm some guy who has come out of nowhere..."

And I look at Chris Froome and I think... who was this guy when he was 23 - 25? While Bradders was tearing up the track, TT scene and showing promise on the road where was Chris Froome, because if his performances, now, are anything to go by he almost as good a time trialist as Wiggins and an even better climber - surely that level of potential would have been noticed and spoken up?

Still, supicions aside, I don't think he is doping.

DDD he didn't turn Pro until 2007. Spent his youth in SA where talented riders don't get spotted or get the support that the likes of Wiggins, Cav did. He came 30 something in the 2009 Giro, showed potential. Sky have been working with him since 2010 and its clearly showing now. He was 2nd overall in the 2011 Vuelta a España despite having been suffering with bilharzia.

So he's not really come out of nowhere. The bilharzia prob set his dev back, but unlike Wiggo he hasn't been nurtured since he was very young. Wiggo was a full-time Lottery-funded athlete back in 1998.

Oh and Wiggo is 33, Froome 28. So comparing what they were doing in 2005 is daft.

Finally, I take it you know that DB released Froome's data to L'Equipe, who don't think he's doping. I don't think he is either, certainly not with Sky's knowledge. Ask yourself this, would DB put the whole of British cycling at risk, all those Olympic medals, in return for one or two TDF wins? I think not.

Wrath Rob

Either he is. Or he's a gifted rider who's now able to shine due to the twin effect of being in the right environment (Sky) and the rest of the sport cleaning up and quitting doping.

Yes he looks head and shoulders above the others but actually his big performances have come off the back of rest or easy days, his team have looked fragile trying to protect him day after day and his own performances haven't been consistent, he was exposed in the echelons stage and looked vulnerable yesterday. I've come down on the side of clean but retain some scepticism, which I blame LA for.

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

When Bradley Wiggins was quizzed about doping last year he said (or words to the effect).

"It's not like I'm some guy who has come out of nowhere..."

And I look at Chris Froome and I think... who was this guy when he was 23 - 25? While Bradders was tearing up the track, TT scene and showing promise on the road where was Chris Froome, because if his performances, now, are anything to go by he almost as good a time trialist as Wiggins and an even better climber - surely that level of potential would have been noticed and spoken up?

Still, supicions aside, I don't think he is doping.

DDD he didn't turn Pro until 2007. Spent his youth in SA where talented riders don't get spotted or get the support that the likes of Wiggins, Cav did. He came 30 something in the 2009 Giro, showed potential. Sky have been working with him since 2010 and its clearly showing now. He was 2nd overall in the 2011 Vuelta a España despite having been suffering with bilharzia.

So he's not really come out of nowhere. The bilharzia prob set his dev back, but unlike Wiggo he hasn't been nurtured since he was very young. Wiggo was a full-time Lottery-funded athlete back in 1998.

Oh and Wiggo is 33, Froome 28. So comparing what they were doing in 2005 is daft.

Finally, I take it you know that DB released Froome's data to L'Equipe, who don't think he's doping. I don't think he is either, certainly not with Sky's knowledge. Ask yourself this, would DB put the whole of British cycling at risk, all those Olympic medals, in return for one or two TDF wins? I think not.

You are absolutely right.

To the lay person it looks like Chris Froome came out of nowhere. To the more informed that in itself sounds like nonsense.

jonny_trousers

Froome doping or not?

Not. Next!

markhewitt1978

Someone winning a tour stage, or the entire race? That's so unusual!

rolf_f

Wrath Rob wrote:

......he was exposed in the echelons stage

I don't think so. He wasn't in the right place at the right time (and he wouldn't be - the attack wouldn't have come if he'd been right up front at that moment) and the fact that even Cav struggled to hold on shows that Froome wouldn't have been able to cross the gap once it appeared. Tactical error rather than physical condition.

Yesterday is more interesting - but the fact is that once Froome had got the food on board, he lost barely any further time against the winner (it was just over 3 minutes almost all the way and the final increase to 3:18 was probably down to Riblon pushing so hard at the top) - he lost time to Quintana but that's probably understandable in the circumstances. So far, he looks pretty consistent to me but what's going on inside is anyones guess!

rick_chasey

Oh not in commuter chat too now?

Ffs.

rick_chasey

viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12930855&start=1080#p18441691

My rant after 50 pages of probably libelous guff.


Between the mods we've banned about 5 people who got overexcited because of sky doping chat. Please don't make us have to do any more.

DonDaddyD

What I like is that even though you posted that, the thread went on for another 6 pages.

rick_chasey

You of all people should know my opinion carries no weight!!

rolf_f

Rick Chasey wrote:

Oh not in commuter chat too now?

Ffs.

Your job as admin/mod is to react to threads when they go wrong - not to start having nervous breakdowns in anticipation of a thread that might or might not go wrong but is perfectly fine so far. Please bog off with the modding until you are needed.

cyclingprop

Rolf F wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Oh not in commuter chat too now?

Ffs.

Your job as admin/mod is to react to threads when they go wrong - not to start having nervous breakdowns in anticipation of a thread that might or might not go wrong but is perfectly fine so far. Please bog off with the modding until you are needed.

LOL. Yeah. :P

The Rookie

I see Ricks comment as being like a rugby ref warning people when they are on the line not to go over, friendly advice before the 'stick' is used.

Best runners come from Kenyan as they are born and live at altitude, Froome was born in and was national champion of.....Kenya.... (even if it was a rather 'dodgy deal').

tailwindhome

The answer to the OP is, "We don't know".

I don’t think that the definitive answer to that comes out for a while … With time, all truth is revealed. But like I said, my hope and belief — put it to you this way. If you put a gun to my head and say, is Chris Froome clean or is Chris Froome not? You get it wrong and the bullet goes off, right? My expectation would be that I would hear “click” and the bullet wouldn’t go off. But would I be f—ing wincing beforehand? Yes.

timtak

Several, well four, years later and Froome is still winning. Do we know now, or have any clues?

Are there any signs either way?

E.g. I felt that a long jaw is a sign of human growth hormone. A certain swim team all looked liked the Edvard Munch mask used by the baddy in the movie Scream. Froome does not have a long jaw imho.

But there may be other signs of other drugs, perhaps?

pblakeney

Holy thread resurrection!
Popcorn course 2.

k1875

Long chins.

Please make this stop.

vimfuego

So this is Greipel on the Champs Elysees - massively long chin no?
You need a new tinfoil hat

GedFoss

I'm afraid I've gone past the point of caring. I watched with awe in the era of Pantani and Ullrich, how did that end up? Armstrong was then the knight in shining armour. I thought people should leave the guy alone as there was no evidence. 2006, 2007. Finally, I thought Cadel Evans and Carlos Sastre were the real deal. I even had faith in Wiggins, but all of it collapsed when I saw Froome put motorbikes into difficulty going up a mountaintop finish in 2013. It's not a rational response, I have no evidence, just the feeling I've been here before. Hence not bothering with pro racing since then. Far better to be out on my bike. At least if I dope I'm only kidding myself.