Ride up inside of cars or wait in queue?

pinkteapot

Is there anything in the Highway Code (or elsewhere) about what cyclists are meant to do in traffic - queue behind it or come up the inside?

I'm sorry, I'm a cyclist too, but I get annoyed on the days I drive to work when cyclists come up my inside on my approach to traffic lights/roundabouts (on roads without cycle paths at the left-hand edge). I overtake them (no mean feat on busy roads), then when I stop they come past and I have to get past them again. Had a record this morning - had to get round the same bike four times!

Is this what cyclists are meant to do? The roads in question have dedicated cycle paths on the pavements, so when I cycle I'm on there. To be fair, the surface is pretty poor which is why some cyclists stick to the road itself.

When I'm cycling, if I'm on the road I wait in line. If I come up to a queue of traffic I wait behind the last car. Cars that come up behind then stop behind me, and overtake once we move off. It seems polite but am I doing it wrong? MrTeapot seems to think that waiting in line is dangerous but I can't see why. The car in front is unlikely to reverse into me, and the one behind can clearly see me and overtake as normal.

I know bike/motor vehicle etiquette is contentious and I really don't want to start a massive barney... :?

drlodge

I do it when cycling into London, as everyone is doing it, and then we sit actually right on front of the front car in that "bikes only" bit by the lights.

Otherwise I will go up the inside if there is splenty of space to move up the inside, but won't generally go right to the front, but will stay back a car or two. I don't want to get squashed.

arran77

Don't think there is anything in law that says you can't do this, the Highway Code mentions the following....

You should only overtake on the left (i.e. undertake) if the vehicle in front of you is turning right, and there’s room for you to do so.

But you can pass on the left if you’re in slow-moving traffic in a queue, and you’re moving faster than traffic on your right.

I guess it just comes down to being safe really and making sure other road users see you.

pinkteapot

Fair enough. I will continue to rage quietly at the cyclists who make me overtake them repeatedly but I'll keep being a nice overtaker who gives a wide berth. Unlike the BMWs who overtake me when I'm cycling that are close enough that I could kick them.

anthdci

it really depends on the road for me. I know most of the roads around where I normally cycle and on my commute I know even lump, bump and hole, so I know how wide a road is after the lights. If it is wide enough for cars to safely pass me once they get back upto speed I will go to the front, if it is clearly to narrow and I am going to hold loads of cars up then I wont, I'll hang back. So I think it is a bit common sense required.

There is a bit of my usual route the is double lane but always nose to tail near stationary traffic. In that situation I ride in the middle of both lanes, there is far more space that squeezing between curb and left lane cars, and the cars are going considerably slower so I am not troubling anyone.

peat

I had a set-to with a mate about this.

We were riding though a city and along a section that was littered with traffic lights. He would filter down the inside whereas i was happy to wait in line. I would begrudgingly join him but found, like the OP, we were being overtaken repeatedly by the same cars. So, we werent getting anywhere any quicker AND we were probably frustrating the cars that kept having to pass us over and over so suggested we just chill and wait in line.

He wouldn't hear of it and became mr 'I know my rights blah blah'.

He's the same guy that would walk onto a zebra crossing if there was a juggernaught approaching at full speed. I get the impression he'd rather be right and dead than surrender his rights. Tool.

So, in summation, im with you pinkteapot.

daviesee

Depends on the circumstances, and as per Arran77's post.

1. If it is for lights and I will get through on the next phase anyway then I will wait.
2. If it means the difference of getting through phases and there is enough space then I will go through, safely.
3. If there is not enough space then I will wait.
4. If it is for Give Ways or roundabouts then scenario 2 applies.

5. Sometimes there is more room and it is safer to go up the outside.

Every scenario has to be judged on the situation.

monkimark

If I waited in line on my commute in London it'd take me twice as long - I'd have to travel at the speed of rush hour cars.

capt_slog

Peat wrote:

So, in summation, im with you pinkteapot.

Me too, most of the time.

I tend not to do it on the bike as I know how annoyed i get when i'm in the car and someone does it to me. My daily commute (car) includes a lot of road where this happens, and it's even worse when the cyclist uses the pavement and then drops down in front of you at the lights. :evil:

Another pet hate is the local level crossing, where the barrier comes down for 3 mins before any train and so is down a large proportion of the time and you can be stuck in the queue for three trains because the crossing doesn't clear. Mr Cyclist comes riding around the entire queue, and then when the barriers go up, we all have to wait for him to put his bottle back, clip in, manage the hill start and crawl across followed by two cars before the barriers come down again. My patience is strained as a fellow cyclist, when a horse rider does it I'm looking in the back seat on the off-chance of finding a humane killer!

AchillesLeftKnee

For me it depends on the situation, but my default position is I won't pass anything up the inside (or otherwise filter) unless I know full well what I'm passing isn't going to move, and that I'm not going to get in the way of whatever I've passed.

As far as safety's concerned, the way I see it...

Drivers have, on average, slightly less than two eyes. Those eyes can be looking in one of three mirrors, or out of roughly one of three windows. Sneaking up on them is a really bad idea because the odds are that they won't see you no matter how observant they are. In essence, the moment you put yourself alongside another vehicle all bets are off and you're relying on luck to some extent.

chepstow biker

What would be the point of advanced stop lines if cyclists weren't expected to filter to the front of traffic queues ?

AchillesLeftKnee

chepstow biker wrote:

What would be the point of advanced stop lines if cyclists weren't expected to filter to the front of traffic queues ?

Clearly that's what they're for. However, as with any other aspect of road usage, just because something is legal it doesn't mean to say it's a Safe and A Good Idea under all circumstances.

seanoconn

One of the advantages of riding a bike is being able to filter through traffic, sensibly and safely. Although I tend not to mess with buses and lorries.

capt_slog

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

Drivers have, on average, slightly less than two eyes. Those eyes can be looking in one of three mirrors, or out of roughly one of three windows. Sneaking up on them is a really bad idea because the odds are that they won't see you no matter how observant they are. In essence, the moment you put yourself alongside another vehicle all bets are off and you're relying on luck to some extent.

Blimey.

That should be written on a label and fastened to bikes before they leave the factory/shop.

thistle_

chepstow biker wrote:

What would be the point of advanced stop lines if cyclists weren't expected to filter to the front of traffic queues ?

In an ideal world they would connect to a cycle lane on the left hand side of the road so there's no question on whether you can'cannot filter.

I won't filter on the left past moving traffic (unless there are multiple lanes on the road). I will if the traffic is stationary, there's a decent amount of space and I'll make any decent headway by doing so. In the past I've had cars swerve over to the left if I've been filtering on the left to try and stop me passing them.

If there's a queue or slow moving traffic with no junciton/traffic lights ahead then I overtake if it's safe (on the right).

Mikey23

I tend to wait in the queue

mustgettaller

I overtake to near the front - on the inside or outside as appropriate and safe.

However:

• I only go right to the front if I can see that there's room for me to be there without impeding the front driver.
• I watch the positioning of the cars to see if they're likely to be turning at the junction (despite indicators or lack of)
• If I end up at the front, I get off fast and very deliberately get out of the way to the left.
• I stop overtaking and get in line/out of the way as soon as the queue starts moving - it's unreasonable for a car driver to find me appearing alongside him as he pulls away.
• I make sure the cars can see I'm watching their positioning. I find that observation/engagement with the car drivers pays dividends.

That's my 2p worth. So in summary - 'Yes but like a hedghehog making love - carefully.'

me-109

Filter whenever and wherever possible. Why would I want to wait in a queue? Might as well take the car…

What bugs me are these people that overtake you then, when they get held at the next lights, crossing etc pull into the curb leaving you nowhere to go than either round the outside or over the pavement. And they don't get the hint even after doing it four times…!…

AchillesLeftKnee

Me-109 wrote:

Filter whenever and wherever possible. Why would I want to wait in a queue? Might as well take the car…

What bugs me are these people that overtake you then, when they get held at the next lights, crossing etc pull into the curb leaving you nowhere to go than either round the outside or over the pavement. And they don't get the hint even after doing it four times…!…

So, what you're saying here is you weren't actually going quicker than him but proceeded to pass him four times anyway.

Frank Wilson

Capt Slog wrote:

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

Drivers have, on average, slightly less than two eyes. Those eyes can be looking in one of three mirrors, or out of roughly one of three windows. Sneaking up on them is a really bad idea because the odds are that they won't see you no matter how observant they are. In essence, the moment you put yourself alongside another vehicle all bets are off and you're relying on luck to some extent.

Most drivers I see on my daily car commute (50 miles each way so a bit long for my bike) appear to have both eyes glued to their mobile phones.

pinkteapot

Me-109 wrote:

What bugs me are these people that overtake you then, when they get held at the next lights, crossing etc pull into the curb leaving you nowhere to go than either round the outside or over the pavement. And they don't get the hint even after doing it four times…!…

Maybe they're pulling in tight to the kerb deliberately so that you can't come up the inside of them, and they won't have to overtake you... :P

scrumpydave

In a reversal of normal behaviour I got a full on verbal attack from a white van man a few weeks ago for NOT filtering to the front of a queue of traffic. Apparently it was my fault that he hadn't been able to go all the way across some yellow hatching and obstructed another vehicle crossing the lane.

Unfortunately in my attempts to put myself in the safest position I found myself 3 feet in front of a guy with a ton of metal and an attitude problem.

me-109

pinkteapot wrote:

Me-109 wrote:

What bugs me are these people that overtake you then, when they get held at the next lights, crossing etc pull into the curb leaving you nowhere to go than either round the outside or over the pavement. And they don't get the hint even after doing it four times…!…

Maybe they're pulling in tight to the kerb deliberately so that you can't come up the inside of them, and they won't have to overtake you... :P

No, just inconsiderate twunts with no discernable appreciation of the speed of a pedal cycle or consideration of the fact they may be caught up with. If you're lucky they will actually give you enough room when they overtake so as not to clip your elbow.

awallace

well...

I used to pass on the inside of stationary traffic, to the front of the lights unless the opposite lane of oncoming traffic is empty and ill over take conventionally.

However, last week I passed on the inside, pulled up to the railings at the lights and held on to save unclipping, and for some reason I unclipped?! I pulled off at the same time as the car to my right, lost my balance, hitting the car. The driver was more upset than me. I has a few cuts and bruises, no bike damage thankfully but severely damaged pride!

I now wait in line.

Mike Healey

pinkteapot wrote:

Fair enough. I will continue to rage quietly at the cyclists who make me overtake them repeatedly but I'll keep being a nice overtaker who gives a wide berth. Unlike the BMWs who overtake me when I'm cycling that are close enough that I could kick them.

I'm not sure what the problem is. If the "make" you overtake them repeatedly, does that mean that they over(under)take you repeatedly and are raging quietly at someone who "makes" them over(under)take frequently?

Does having to overtake repeatedly tire you out more than it would do if they didn't undertake you? Or is it that you don't believe that they should come up on the inside, altho' it's perfectly legal, and that is what annoys you?

If they weren't there, would you be able to go any slower or faster?

asprilla

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

Me-109 wrote:

Filter whenever and wherever possible. Why would I want to wait in a queue? Might as well take the car…

What bugs me are these people that overtake you then, when they get held at the next lights, crossing etc pull into the curb leaving you nowhere to go than either round the outside or over the pavement. And they don't get the hint even after doing it four times…!…

So, what you're saying here is you weren't actually going quicker than him but proceeded to pass him four times anyway.

I thought he was saying that they weren't going any quicker than him and yet they kept overtaking him fo no apparent reason.

I filter to the front when 'safe'; I commute into London and so I'm generally moving quicker than the traffic.

sungod

unless there a humungous tailback at the lights, i usually don't bother, even then i only do it if there's plenty of room, also, if there's an advanced stop line with a clear 'filter lane' i'll use it

otherwise sit in the queue, i find drivers seem a bit more considerate/aware and it greatly reduces the chance of getting left hooked

meursault

seanoconn wrote:

One of the advantages of riding a bike is being able to filter through traffic, sensibly and safely. Although I tend not to mess with buses and lorries.

This.

Why is it a problem for op to overtake, maybe more than once. She has gears and an engine, just needs some patience.

AchillesLeftKnee

Asprilla wrote:

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

Me-109 wrote:

Filter whenever and wherever possible. Why would I want to wait in a queue? Might as well take the car…

What bugs me are these people that overtake you then, when they get held at the next lights, crossing etc pull into the curb leaving you nowhere to go than either round the outside or over the pavement. And they don't get the hint even after doing it four times…!…

So, what you're saying here is you weren't actually going quicker than him but proceeded to pass him four times anyway.

I thought he was saying that they weren't going any quicker than him and yet they kept overtaking him fo no apparent reason.

I filter to the front when 'safe'; I commute into London and so I'm generally moving quicker than the traffic.

Quite. Filtering makes perfect sense when you're genuinely faster over time than just in the instant, otherwise it's just road users getting in each other's way for no gain.

The Ors

Mike Healey wrote:

pinkteapot wrote:

Fair enough. I will continue to rage quietly at the cyclists who make me overtake them repeatedly but I'll keep being a nice overtaker who gives a wide berth. Unlike the BMWs who overtake me when I'm cycling that are close enough that I could kick them.

I'm not sure what the problem is. If the "make" you overtake them repeatedly, does that mean that they over(under)take you repeatedly and are raging quietly at someone who "makes" them over(under)take frequently?

Does having to overtake repeatedly tire you out more than it would do if they didn't undertake you? Or is it that you don't believe that they should come up on the inside, altho' it's perfectly legal, and that is what annoys you?

If they weren't there, would you be able to go any slower or faster?

Exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if the cyclist is moaning about the person in the car taking up the whole lane and forcing them to undertake 4x in a row?

Share the road!

As to the original question, sometimes I undertake, sometimes I overtake, sometimes I wait. Depends on the situation.

If you drive a car you are going to be stuck in traffic irregardless of cyclists; it's the other cars that are actually slowing you down, not the bikes!

will3

The Ors wrote:

Mike Healey wrote:

Exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if the cyclist is moaning about the person in the car taking up the whole lane and forcing them to undertake 4x in a row?

Share the road

Seems to be a case of pot calling the kettle ......................pink


For some reason many motorists seem to find it imperative to pass a cycle wether or not they're actually going to get anywhere by doing so. But, hey if you're in a hurry to sit at the next red light, carry on, just don't get the hump when the cycle goes past you in the queue. Average car speed in london is around 10mph, but will be stop start all the way. Slower than many cycles.