Tax Penaltys

paul.skibum

I have been in Canada for pretty much the last 2 years - filed a tax return just before I left in 2011 for 2010/11 and asked friends to keep an eye out for a return for the 2011/12 year.

I popped back in October last year for a holiday and checked my post - no tax return request received. As my last 5 or 6 have been nil returns with nothing to pay and minor repayments generally I assumed that I had slipped off the radar for HMRC and was not reuqired to submit one.

Got back to UK in late April and found I was subject to a penalty for not submitting a return - I printed one off and sent it but by the time it was received I had apparently accrued a £100 basic penalty, 30 days of £30 daily penalties for late submission plus a 6 month penalty (although I dont get the latter at all as I submitted my return in May).

So I am basically looking at £1300 of penalties, have missed the date for appeal and the date to request a tribunal apparently too. All for a nil tax return which I wasn't asked to submit (except a letter in late december which said I should submit one but I didn't receive until my return to UK).

Does anyone know of any way in which to appeal or have penalties overturned even if just on a fair and equitable basis? £1300 really does not seem to fit the crime in this case.

Chunkers1980

That's proper annoying. Missus has been stung a few times, sorry can't help though, glad I'm paye.

homers_double

According to the mrs who is an accountant, HMRC would quash a fine if you filed a loss however that changed last year so unless you get it in ontime you're shafted.

Better lube up I'm afraid.

Daz555

You'll have to pay first then appeal afterwards and hope for the best.

Stevo_666

Unfortunately as it's a self assessment system for income tax it's your responsibility to file a return even if they don't send you the forms. Did you tell them you were leaving the UK? If so you'll have a better chance.

Have a look here to see if there's anything that will help:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/leave-uk.htm

paul.skibum

So it appears having chatted to an advisor (by which I mean a lady in the office who just read the rules to me), that as I hurridly filed a paper return rather than registering for on line submission in order to get my return in quickly when faced with threat of penalties, I triggered the penalties because paper filing deadline is end of October - had I registered, waited 2 weeks and filed on line I would only be fined £100.

Good to see a fair and equitable approach - didn't mention that on the letter although it did direct you to the online filing pages but didnt tell you not to file paper.

Appeal letter typed - they aint getting any money from me - I dont have it.

FishFish

What you should have done is to have written to them saying that when you left the country you submitted an R85 form (I think that is the number) - it basically resets everything when you go abroad (but be careful - it cancels your nhs entitlement). HMRC are always losing these things. There would have ben no liability and possibly a refund in the year you left!!! - if you were paye.

FishFish

paul.skibum wrote:

had I registered, waited 2 weeks and filed on line I would only be fined £100.

.

Then tell them you CANNOT file online - because they can only send the two part user name and pw to a UK address.

..Hold out on this one - youve done nothing wrong by going abroad - you have not delayed them getting any money so there is no natural justice in this. Actually they are fair - but the junior ones you have dealt with are just bullies.

Daz555

paul.skibum wrote:

Appeal letter typed - they aint getting any money from me - I dont have it.

The problem is that if you don't pay the penalties by the date specified then you'll be fined for that also. Even if you win the appeal you will not get that additional money returned.

anj132

Is it fair to say to get yourself to some local tax accountants (pref CTA qualified) - get a quote or two for their help. For them it's going to be a letter or 2 without much time. I reckon it couldn't be more than £200 of fees and they'll pick up on all the bits HMRC should have done. It wouldn't hurt even to get a free consultation where they can point what they can do.

If you really don't want to do that, then try asking on accountingweb.co.uk - you should get some better answers than on a bike forum

edit: urgh, this was in July when you first posted - well I hope it's coming on ok.

paul.skibum

Just to round off this thread, I wrote a nice email explaining my position, history and so on to the tax man and he has waived the penalties and told me not to do it again. So job done.

stubs

A mate works in Kazakhstan and for tax purposes is registered as based in the Isle of Man at his Mums address. For some complicated reason he now cant visit Britain for the rest of the tax year unless he gives HMRC a whopping lump of back tax. When he comes home for Xmas he will have to fly to Dublin and then onto the Isle of Man.

Daz555

stubs wrote:

A mate works in Kazakhstan and for tax purposes is registered as based in the Isle of Man at his Mums address. For some complicated reason he now cant visit Britain for the rest of the tax year unless he gives HMRC a whopping lump of back tax. When he comes home for Xmas he will have to fly to Dublin and then onto the Isle of Man.

Indeed - if you spend too much time in the UK then you become liable for UK taxation. The rules are complex but it makes sense. Nationals working abroad and not paying UK tax but still spending lots of time in the UK are benefiting from services provided by UK tax payers.

stubs

I think its becauee he was in the country too many days last tax year. He is only allowed a couple of weeks I think, he is usually home only 3 times a year.

tlw1

paul.skibum wrote:

Just to round off this thread, I wrote a nice email explaining my position, history and so on to the tax man and he has waived the penalties and told me not to do it again. So job done.

Great news

FishFish

Britain is the only country which offers a concession on tax if you reside abroad for a long time. If you are a US or Australian (and many more ) national and you work overseas then you pay tax on your earnings at 'home'. This affects people mainly in the Middle East where there is no income tax - so you pay homeland tax on all of your earnings. For British Citizens using offshore accounts they run the jeapordy of being taxed when they transfer monet to the UK from their offshore account too.

paul.skibum

Double tax agreements exist between lots of countries particularly in the commonwealth to stop that - Canada and US have similar deals with each other.