10TT 3rd go and getting better

Graeme Jones

Positive steps tonight after having another go of the local 10TT loop of 3.3milesx3 gutted my Garmin500 decided to go mental just at the start of the strava segment but luckily two of the other club riders started at the same time and have a time of 27:30 this was with no drafting at all as previously there had been drafting on the club nights which defies the point. I previously posted a 28:50 so I am made up with that.
Most of the time I was either at the front or if passed I stepped out to the side to get no benefit from them. I am looking for a 26minute by the end of August

markos1963

Not quite sure I understand your post. Are you saying you took part in a TT and posted that time or just rode a TT course with some mates?

Graeme Jones

It was a club training ride I. Which we did a 10TT but set off a different times and if caught or passing didn't draft

markos1963

If your mates were within view then it could be said you're taking pace and if they were following on your wheel that would give you an advantage as well. Best way to see if you can ride a TT course well is to enter a TT and do it under proper conditions and timing.

Graeme Jones

That's what I am planning it was a training session so can't really help people behind. I focused mainly on my HR to max figure kept it to 90% or less for the first 3 miles then up to 92/3% for the next 3 miles then last 400metres all out when finish in sight.
I did it a minute slower the month before on my own but my fitness is getting much better.
I am hoping to go to an open race this month and try and crack the 26mins bracket which I think would be doable currently on a flat there and back type course.

Graeme Jones

4th go today in less than perfect conditions the council have been performing road works on one of the road with loose chippings everywhere last week making it too dangerous to ride the loop but today was safe to ride but definitely slowed my momentum in parts however I did a PB of 26:40 with two mini roundabout left turns having to scrub a lot of pace off due to traffic, so overall I think I could have done a 26minute dead on the same course with better conditions.

I tried driving a bigger gear when I could rather than spinning at 100rpm so this definitely worked but more experimenting to do.

I have a 12-25 compact would I benefit from 12-23 or 12-21 cassette I feel the jump in gears at the smaller end of the cassette are a bit too big to manage

celbianchi

This doesn't sound much like a race to me.

Graeme Jones

It's a 10 mile TT strava loop that I had a go at not the nationals.

markos1963

Graeme Jones wrote:

4th go today in less than perfect conditions the council have been performing road works on one of the road with loose chippings everywhere last week making it too dangerous to ride the loop but today was safe to ride but definitely slowed my momentum in parts however I did a PB of 26:40 with two mini roundabout left turns having to scrub a lot of pace off due to traffic, so overall I think I could have done a 26minute dead on the same course with better conditions.

I tried driving a bigger gear when I could rather than spinning at 100rpm so this definitely worked but more experimenting to do.

I have a 12-25 compact would I benefit from 12-23 or 12-21 cassette I feel the jump in gears at the smaller end of the cassette are a bit too big to manage

You wouldn't have lost that much time at the RAB, maybe 10s each time, it just feels more as you wait for a gap.
Your gearing at your level wouldn't be much of a hindrance but I don't know the course profile so difficult to say. I run a 12-23 but rarely use the bottom three sprockets even with a 55t chainring on so it doesn't matter what the spacing is and that includes racing on Spoco's.

Graeme Jones

http://www.strava.com/activities/72582162#1429097295

This is the loop in which you need to complete 3 times its quite a good little course when its quiet.
There is one minor incline that probably makes the 200ft of elevation over the 3 laps as everything else is flat as a pancake!

The jump from what I think is 15th and 16th gear seems a bit bigger but may be leg strength required ;-)

It's good this TT lark. I did a 1:14 for a 25mile course I did early morning on public roads averaging 20.2mph so plenty more to come but was windy as hell!

davecara

Good going Graeme! I cant get under 32mins yet!!

ilovemytinbred

Get to a club tt as there are not likely to be many left this season. Doing a race is a good experience, difficult to replicate in training, you will go faster.

markos1963

I would get to a race on this course asap and post a proper time as the above advises. With such a flat course you could ride it fixed and post a fast time. Don't worry about gearing just get on it and race, you'll go at least a minute quicker with a race number on your back and the fear of being caught by your minute man. If you are unsure about which gear to use go for the lower one and spin it until you build your strength.

Graeme Jones

It's more than likely I'd go faster on a race day I think everyone does to be fair. I'm happy for my 4th effort. In aiming to get a 25min in training by end of summer.
The club I was with I've parted ways with as some numpty from the club kept flagging my strava rides once I achieved my first KOM so I'm going to join a more structured club that races next summer and train hard through the winter to be TT ready for next march/April.out of interest I know it's a piece of string question but if I invested in a TT bike next year with the right set up and gear this would be reduced again I presume? My current bike is a Defy 3 with compact gears so not exactly racy!

markos1963

You might be quicker on a TT bike but there's no guarantee. It depends on how your body adapts to the position. It's not uncommon for riders to lose power in an aero position so it becomes a trade off between aero and power. The more you ride your TT bike in training then the better you become(obviously)
My advise would be for your first season is to get some clip on bars for your bike to gain experience. Ride next season in as many races as you can. There are plenty of riders out there TTing on road bikes who can do sub 23mins so your bike won't limit you too much. Also get yourself a skin suit and TT helmet as these will gain you more time than expensive wheels etc. Then if you are still keen at the end of the season you could look again at a dedicated TT bike.

Graeme Jones

That's a good shout mate thanks. You think the aero bars will help? Would my position need tweaking a lot to suit?
I think I can go sub 25 on my bike just through hard work

markos1963

The bars can help but don't expect to knock a minute off your time. If you fit them make sure your stem is both turned to face downwards and there are no spacers under it. The aim is to get your frontal area as low as possible. You can then bring the saddle forward on the rails and also a bit higher. You might want to drop the nose of the saddle a touch to make it a bit comfortable. The aim is to open up your hip angle to allow you to make power. As with any position change on the bike do it in small stages to get used to it.

Graeme Jones

Sounds like an option. I actually sat on a TT bike (moda sharp) I think it was on a turbo trainer in cycle surgery and it was set up well for me funnily enough and as you rightly said the hip felt far more open to power down and felt quite natural to me.
After reading articles on the Moda I was disappointed to read a poor review on it. Maybe Planet X next year:-)

pilot_pete

markos1963 wrote:

The bars can help but don't expect to knock a minute off your time. If you fit them make sure your stem is both turned to face downwards and there are no spacers under it. The aim is to get your frontal area as low as possible. You can then bring the saddle forward on the rails and also a bit higher. You might want to drop the nose of the saddle a touch to make it a bit comfortable. The aim is to open up your hip angle to allow you to make power. As with any position change on the bike do it in small stages to get used to it.

In theory your advice sounds good, certainly as a target, but you can't make blanket statements like turn the stem to face down, remove all the spacers etc etc. it all depends on overall fit. Just doing that could well have his thighs meeting his chest (beer gut!). It could certainly prove unsustainable even for a ten in a rider who has never been that low before. Take it from me, your neck will ache like hell until you get used to craning it! Whatever you do, don't go too low too quick and struggle to look forwards. Head down riding has killed dozens...

You will only be able to adapt your road bike for TTs to a limited extent. If it is your only bike will you really want to be adjusting saddle, seatpost, stem, bars, tri bars etc every time you ride a TT training session? And then changing them all back for your next road ride?

To start with, assuming your road bike is set up correctly for you in a fairly racy position (I.e. not full on sportive, upright and comfy!) then just fit some tri bars and see how you get on. Many of my mates do this and they can ride at a higher pace for longer on the extensions due to the aero benefit they provide. Much easier than having to keep resetting everything each ride.

Ultimately though, once you have entered a few proper TTs you will inevitably catch the bug (or never do it again!) and want an all singing, all dancing Bolide or the like! Best then to consider a second hand TT bike with the right size frame which you can adjust to fit you, practice on extensively, spend small fortunes or daft looking gimp outfits, start getting into your best aero position and watch your times tumble. Post PBs that are huge chunks off previous bests, then struggle to match that float day time for the rest of the season, vowing that this winter your training will be more structured and you will be more disciplined, both at the training and the Christmas mince pies....and so the cycle continues...!

PP

markos1963

Pilot Pete wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

The bars can help but don't expect to knock a minute off your time. If you fit them make sure your stem is both turned to face downwards and there are no spacers under it. The aim is to get your frontal area as low as possible. You can then bring the saddle forward on the rails and also a bit higher. You might want to drop the nose of the saddle a touch to make it a bit comfortable. The aim is to open up your hip angle to allow you to make power. As with any position change on the bike do it in small stages to get used to it.

In theory your advice sounds good, certainly as a target, but you can't make blanket statements like turn the stem to face down, remove all the spacers etc etc. it all depends on overall fit. Just doing that could well have his thighs meeting his chest (beer gut!). It could certainly prove unsustainable even for a ten in a rider who has never been that low before. Take it from me, your neck will ache like hell until you get used to craning it! Whatever you do, don't go too low too quick and struggle to look forwards. Head down riding has killed dozens...

You will only be able to adapt your road bike for TTs to a limited extent. If it is your only bike will you really want to be adjusting saddle, seatpost, stem, bars, tri bars etc every time you ride a TT training session? And then changing them all back for your next road ride?

To start with, assuming your road bike is set up correctly for you in a fairly racy position (I.e. not full on sportive, upright and comfy!) then just fit some tri bars and see how you get on. Many of my mates do this and they can ride at a higher pace for longer on the extensions due to the aero benefit they provide. Much easier than having to keep resetting everything each ride.

Ultimately though, once you have entered a few proper TTs you will inevitably catch the bug (or never do it again!) and want an all singing, all dancing Bolide or the like! Best then to consider a second hand TT bike with the right size frame which you can adjust to fit you, practice on extensively, spend small fortunes or daft looking gimp outfits, start getting into your best aero position and watch your times tumble. Post PBs that are huge chunks off previous bests, then struggle to match that float day time for the rest of the season, vowing that this winter your training will be more structured and you will be more disciplined, both at the training and the Christmas mince pies....and so the cycle continues...!

PP

Yes, fair enough but I did put at the end of my statement the need to do it in small stages( maybe not in as good a way as you have)

Graeme Jones

I'm not doing too bad on the gut from at 6'2 and 12stone 7lb however I am still in the process of altering my road position and would rather invest in a TT bike than mess with my road bike when I've been improving a lot on the road still.
I'm going to train on mine and maybe see if there is a winter bargain to be had!