Get new wheels? (or is my bike too rubbish to bother)

llgoosey
llgoosey Posts: 7
edited July 2013 in Road beginners
Hello! Advice required again please - I'm currently riding a entry level Specialized Dolce (7 years old) which has been an excellent commuter bike and has given me almost no grief in the thousands of miles it's done. In the last few months i've been seriously ramping up the miles and doing long weekend rides now - am taking part in the London Ride 100 in a few weeks (ARG).

I hear a lot about how new wheels make a big improvement on your speed (and it's this I'm worried about at the moment, though am not daft enough to think new wheels will add +3mph or anything) - so my question is if it's worth investing in a pair? I'm looking at some Shimano RS30s. Is it a bit too late in the day to be thinking about this so close to the event? Are there likely to be any unforeseen problems with new wheels? Would these be robust enough to deal with central London's potholes if I commute on them? Any suggestions of reasonably priced wheels?

Or, should I just stick with the stock wheels that came with it with aim of buying a new bike in the future?

Thanks in advance!

Comments

  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    llgoosey wrote:
    I hear a lot about how new wheels make a big improvement on your speed

    you may have mis-heard....
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    RS30 are unlikely to be a significant improvement IMO.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Not much point in getting slightly better wheels if there is nothing wrong with your current ones.

    Getting much better ones is always a good idea in my book, but I think its too close to the event to bother and you will probably end up just being precious about them and it will spoil your ride/day.

    I would concentrate on your last 2 weeks of training and make sure all your other preparation is good.

    How worried about speed are you? What distance have you done in what time so far?

    That said, getting some cheap'ish new wheels for the event will make your bike look better and give you a boost.
    So I would say go for it if you have the cash and get a new bike afterwards too ;-)
  • llgoosey
    llgoosey Posts: 7
    Imposter wrote:
    llgoosey wrote:
    I hear a lot about how new wheels make a big improvement on your speed

    you may have mis-heard....

    Oh! So - what's the primary reason for upgrading wheels then?
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    Bling
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Name any bike upgrade you like. There will always be someone who says it isn't worthwhile.
  • llgoosey
    llgoosey Posts: 7
    Carbonator wrote:
    Not much point in getting slightly better wheels if there is nothing wrong with your current ones.

    Getting much better ones is always a good idea in my book, but I think its too close to the event to bother and you will probably end up just being precious about them and it will spoil your ride/day.

    I would concentrate on your last 2 weeks of training and make sure all your other preparation is good.

    How worried about speed are you? What distance have you done in what time so far?

    That said, getting some cheap'ish new wheels for the event will make your bike look better and give you a boost.
    So I would say go for it if you have the cash and get a new bike afterwards too ;-)

    Yeah - I am concerned I might spend the whole time fretting that I might break them if I've only ridden on them once or twice before, which is all I'll have time for. OK - sounds like I should stick with what I know then, if these aren't going to be that much of an improvement (would rather not spend more than £200 on wheels if I can put that towards a new bike!)

    I've done an 85-miler and doing the dunwich dynamo this weekend so not so worried about distance - more that I am pretty rubbish on hills which may slow me down drastically. Best so far is probably a 61 mile route I did in 4h58 - though I took one 10 and one 20-min break as was at the end of a stomach bug and not feeling that great. Was a pretty flat route though.

    Thanks for the advice!
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    If you're going to get new wheels, may as well wait and go the whole hog and spend 4-500 quid on some decent handbuilt wheels that will be light, stiff and easily serviceable than 200 quid on something arguably no better than you already have.
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    edited July 2013
    llgoosey wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    llgoosey wrote:
    I hear a lot about how new wheels make a big improvement on your speed

    you may have mis-heard....

    Oh! So - what's the primary reason for upgrading wheels then?

    You tell me - you're the one who wants new wheels... ;)

    Seriously, you will probably see more benefit from fitting a pair of good quality tyres run at the right pressure. Lot cheaper, too.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    NapoleonD wrote:
    If you're going to get new wheels, may as well wait and go the whole hog and spend 4-500 quid on some decent handbuilt wheels that will be light, stiff and easily serviceable than 200 quid on something arguably no better than you already have.

    +1 - get a decent set of hand builts which you can transfer to a new bike when you eventually buy one.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • Jon_R
    Jon_R Posts: 92
    I bought a set of RS30s in shiny white and in my mind they have made my commuter 10mph quicker. In reality no faster at all but in my head white wheels go hugely faster!
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    If it was me I'd wait for the new bike and specify decent wheels at the time of purchase. The stock wheels on bikes costing £2k and up are often pretty underwhelming.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Ain't that the truth lol
    You kind of have to accept that you need to buy new wheels and keep the stock ones for winter/spares.
    Its fun getting the new wheels though :P
  • llgoosey
    llgoosey Posts: 7
    Jon_R wrote:
    I bought a set of RS30s in shiny white and in my mind they have made my commuter 10mph quicker. In reality no faster at all but in my head white wheels go hugely faster!

    White wheels = more cleaning, surely??? Don't they just attract dust etc?
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    I would imagine they attract exactly the same amount of dust as other colours ;)
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    OP these could be just for you (depending on yoour weight)

    viewtopic.php?f=40091&t=12932093
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • Lycra-Byka
    Lycra-Byka Posts: 292
    Spanner in the works here-
    I use rs30s on my commuter (giant defy 3) had them for over 6 months. I can't rate them enough! I paid £130 from ribble for the pair (true bargain!) they do feel better-maybe no faster I don't know or care-but they ride better no doubt.
    I started using them weighing 116kg (now 90.2kg - thanks cycling!) and I ride flat out over crap roads in all conditions. Also I ride a road bike like a MTbike- bunny hopping grates/holes even jumping of kerbs and off road blasts.I honestly ride these without care.
    I have only had them trued after a huge smash ( 34mph into bridge crash barrier)
    In my opinion for a sub £200 set of 20/24 spoked factory wheelset you can't go wrong, as a bonus I think they look very good too.
  • Jon_R
    Jon_R Posts: 92
    llgoosey wrote:
    Jon_R wrote:
    I bought a set of RS30s in shiny white and in my mind they have made my commuter 10mph quicker. In reality no faster at all but in my head white wheels go hugely faster!

    White wheels = more cleaning, surely??? Don't they just attract dust etc?

    A weekly wipe down with a damp cloth or wet wipe is all they need, it takes less than a minute to keep them fresh and lovely.

    Also as the previous poster I ride my RS30s like a mountain biker on my commute and whilst I get through inner tubes at quite a lick the wheels themsleves have been sturdy.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    I guess you'd be wanting RS31s now anyway?
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    BTW what's the assembled panels views on the RS61?

    I've been looking at wheels to replace the unbranded rims that came with my Trek 2.1

    Was looking at Dura Ace C24, but decided the £630 price tag was mental.
    Then thinking about RS81 (not out yet) for £450.
    But I wonder if RS61 would give me enough of an improvement and since they're £210 a lot more cost effective?
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    Factory wheels are a compromise. They cater to the masses by selling wheels that look nice and have all the right 'buzz words' in their marketing blurrb. Because they are built for maximum performance they are often not suitable for the average rider on our lovely UK roads.

    They tend to be built with straight pull (often aero) spokes using alloy nipples and low spoke counts. This combination is often fine (but the heavier you are the more likely issues will arise) until you actually want to service the wheel. By this time the nipples are often siezed, the parts are like unobtainium and even if you can get the spares the cost is quite often prohibitive.

    The 'marginal gains' they all claim to offer are debateable at best and the over all product (when you include after care) is poor value.

    There are probably 1000's of people who swear by their factory wheels but these people either know what they are getting into and accept it, or have simply not had any issues with them yet. When they do have an issue they will then just swear (lots) and finally realise their error.

    This is obviously just my opinion but, IME hand built wheels are an entirely better product (if built by someone who knows what they are doing) that will give many many thousands of miles of trouble free cycling at a fraction of the overall cost (value) when you include the after care elements. They also ride much nicer (less harsh) IMO, but this is probably because they tend to have round double butted spokes.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • socistep
    socistep Posts: 88
    I've got a cannondale CAAD8 and last week replaced the stock wheels (they are maddux RS3.0) with some campagnola zonda's from wiggle as well as new tyres/cassette.

    I've definitely noticed a difference, ride is smoother and seems faster, accelerating quicker, generally there is a lot less noise whilst riding.

    Obviously this splits opinion on a forum but its worked well for me so far
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    socistep wrote:
    I've got a cannondale CAAD8 and last week replaced the stock wheels (they are maddux RS3.0) with some campagnola zonda's from wiggle as well as new tyres/cassette.

    I've definitely noticed a difference, ride is smoother and seems faster, accelerating quicker, generally there is a lot less noise whilst riding.

    Obviously this splits opinion on a forum but its worked well for me so far

    I don't know why this would split opinion, you're simply stating that "better" stock wheels outperfom "poorer" stock wheels, at least initially.

    I might argue that if you had spent similar money on custom wheels, you'd get a better return over the long run.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • socistep
    socistep Posts: 88
    drlodge wrote:
    socistep wrote:
    I've got a cannondale CAAD8 and last week replaced the stock wheels (they are maddux RS3.0) with some campagnola zonda's from wiggle as well as new tyres/cassette.

    I've definitely noticed a difference, ride is smoother and seems faster, accelerating quicker, generally there is a lot less noise whilst riding.

    Obviously this splits opinion on a forum but its worked well for me so far

    I don't know why this would split opinion, you're simply stating that "better" stock wheels outperfom "poorer" stock wheels, at least initially.

    I might argue that if you had spent similar money on custom wheels, you'd get a better return over the long run.

    I should have put that 'this type of question splits opinion' - as with most posts on a forum there is always more then one view on things - so on this post a decent amount of people saying upgrading to better factory wheels will make a difference, some people will swear by hand built and others will probably say to save the money at this point and get a new bike in the future.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    With due respect, my question wasn't "Should I get factory or handbuilt?" it was simply "Are RS61s any good?".
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    smidsy wrote:
    Factory wheels are a compromise. They cater to the masses by selling wheels that look nice and have all the right 'buzz words' in their marketing blurrb. Because they are built for maximum performance they are often not suitable for the average rider on our lovely UK roads.

    They tend to be built with straight pull (often aero) spokes using alloy nipples and low spoke counts. This combination is often fine (but the heavier you are the more likely issues will arise) until you actually want to service the wheel. By this time the nipples are often siezed, the parts are like unobtainium and even if you can get the spares the cost is quite often prohibitive.

    The 'marginal gains' they all claim to offer are debateable at best and the over all product (when you include after care) is poor value.

    There are probably 1000's of people who swear by their factory wheels but these people either know what they are getting into and accept it, or have simply not had any issues with them yet. When they do have an issue they will then just swear (lots) and finally realise their error.

    This is obviously just my opinion but, IME hand built wheels are an entirely better product (if built by someone who knows what they are doing) that will give many many thousands of miles of trouble free cycling at a fraction of the overall cost (value) when you include the after care elements. They also ride much nicer (less harsh) IMO, but this is probably because they tend to have round double butted spokes.

    There we have it. Anyone without 'handbuilt' wheels is, quite literally, on the road to hell. You heard it here first.
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    In stereo thanks to you :mrgreen:
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • Mindermast
    Mindermast Posts: 124
    If you want a lighter bike, wheels are the best place to start. A wheel set, that weighs 300 g less than the old one, saves you as much as 450 g (or rather the mass-equivalent) to be accelerated, that is almost a pound, or roughly 1 % more acceleration. On the other hand, once the bike is going at the speed you like, the weight doesn't matter anymore, you only need power to overcome a little bit of friction and a lot of wind. And the lower weight will also reduce your momentum, freewheeling makes you lose more speed than with a heavier bike, braking is more effective etc. So, lighter wheels are good and bad, depending on the situation. By the way, it matters, where a wheel is heavier: near the hub it is simply more weight, near the rim it is more momentum and the effect multiplies by 1.5 to 2, during acceleration and braking.

    Then there are aero-wheels, which are a bit on the heavy side because of the higher rims. The aerodynamic effects are said to be noticeable from about 25 mph, where wind resistance is much more important than for example at 18 mph. The wind resistance increases twice as fast as the riding speed - at 12 mph, the impact of wind resistance is only 25% of the impact at 25 mph. Of course, you benefit earlier, when you have strong wind from ahead. Technically not necessary, when your speed is below 25 mph.

    I can't say much about stiffness, but it is important as well. It is about energy transfer, energy divertion (into wobbly wheel movement) and weight support.

    Putting all this together makes wheels a very interesting part of the bike, but also quite complex. Therefore, the easiest way is to go with the trends, the hardest way is to learn by experience. Neither way is wrong.
  • Sprool
    Sprool Posts: 1,022
    Stick with the stock wheels till you wear out the rims or dent them. Then you have a proper reason to upgrade, but I reckon it'll be at least £250 spent to get a significant improvement.

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