Media and doping

EPO Delivery Man

Froomes not the only one getting p*ssed off with all the doping questions. I think the media themselves are now to blame.

They spent the best part of twenty years calling all cyclists cheats and trying to catch Armstrong, but the fact is they are still doing it. They, the media, are now behind the times. They wanted teams and the sport clean and now its getting that way what do they do? Query every win in the Tour with doping allegations, and in doing so, actually keep the sport in the dark ages.

If its about moving on, then everyone has to move on, including the media, interviewers, the sponsors, everyone.

Otherwise, whats the point in Froome smashing his heart and lungs out for 6 months in training, only to win a stage and be accused of doping? He may as well have saved himself the hassle and just have doped anyway, after all, hes pretty much being accused of doping with performances like Mt Ventoux, so whats the bloody point?

Come media, its time to play catch up and stop dragging the sport backwards.

salsiccia1

*applause*

Well said, sir. I mean that genuinely.

No_Ta_Doctor

To be fair, the media are between a rock and hard place. They got slaughtered for not asking Lance the tough questions, now they want to make sure they don't give anyone an easy ride.

They've gone too far, and they've mistaken "asking the tough questions" for shoving a microphone in the guys face and asking him if he doped. If they want to find out they should start doing some digging, proper journalistic spadework. Of course, they'll only bother putting in the hard labour if they think there's a body buried. The lack of evidence of any journalists even glancing toward the toolshed for a spade speaks volumes...

r0bh

It's a huge rebound post-Armstrong that has now gone too far the other way IMHO.

Gerard Vroomen wrote a good piece on this today: http://gerard.cc/2013/07/15/stop-asking-questions/

slim_boy_fat

r0bh wrote:

It's a huge rebound post-Armstrong that has now gone too far the other way IMHO.

Gerard Vroomen wrote a good piece on this today: http://gerard.cc/2013/07/15/stop-asking-questions/

Excellent piece, thanks for posting.

Froboz

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Come media, its time to play catch up and stop dragging the sport backwards.

When the sport is clean it's time to play catch up and not before. Until then, questions must be asked.

slim_boy_fat

Froboz wrote:

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Come media, its time to play catch up and stop dragging the sport backwards.

When the sport is clean it's time to play catch up and not before. Until then, questions must be asked.

But questions that the only possible answer to is 'Yes', in the case of 'Are you riding clean?' How is that helping the sport out in anyway? If they really want to find the truth let them got of their arses and stop asking the stupid questions and go and find out if people are doping.

Froboz

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

But questions that the only possible answer to is 'Yes', in the case of 'Are you riding clean?' How is that helping the sport out in anyway? If they really want to find the truth let them got of their arses and stop asking the stupid questions and go and find out if people are doping.

Investigative journalism works, it helped to bring down Armstrong. Those journalists are a dying breed though nowadays I fear.

RichN95.

If the journalists were accused of phone hacking and plagiarism and asked to revealed their sources every time they filed a story I'm sure they would put up with it a lot less readily than they expect the cyclists to.

thomthom

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Froomes not the only one getting p*ssed off with all the doping questions. I think the media themselves are now to blame.

They spent the best part of twenty years calling all cyclists cheats and trying to catch Armstrong, but the fact is they are still doing it. They, the media, are now behind the times. They wanted teams and the sport clean and now its getting that way what do they do? Query every win in the Tour with doping allegations, and in doing so, actually keep the sport in the dark ages.

If its about moving on, then everyone has to move on, including the media, interviewers, the sponsors, everyone.

Otherwise, whats the point in Froome smashing his heart and lungs out for 6 months in training, only to win a stage and be accused of doping? He may as well have saved himself the hassle and just have doped anyway, after all, hes pretty much being accused of doping with performances like Mt Ventoux, so whats the bloody point?

Come media, its time to play catch up and stop dragging the sport backwards.

Said on the day that we get another epo-positive

Froboz

ThomThom wrote:

Said on the day that we get another epo-positive

Precisely. But hey, let's just sweep everything under the carpet and declare the sport clean :roll:

afx237vi

It's the Tour de France. Journalists who never cover cycling writing articles for people who only watch cycling once a year. The writers want easy copy and the readers want a story that can easily be put into context with what they know has happened in the sport in recent months.

slim_boy_fat

ThomThom wrote:

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Froomes not the only one getting p*ssed off with all the doping questions. I think the media themselves are now to blame.

They spent the best part of twenty years calling all cyclists cheats and trying to catch Armstrong, but the fact is they are still doing it. They, the media, are now behind the times. They wanted teams and the sport clean and now its getting that way what do they do? Query every win in the Tour with doping allegations, and in doing so, actually keep the sport in the dark ages.

If its about moving on, then everyone has to move on, including the media, interviewers, the sponsors, everyone.

Otherwise, whats the point in Froome smashing his heart and lungs out for 6 months in training, only to win a stage and be accused of doping? He may as well have saved himself the hassle and just have doped anyway, after all, hes pretty much being accused of doping with performances like Mt Ventoux, so whats the bloody point?

Come media, its time to play catch up and stop dragging the sport backwards.

Said on the day that we get another epo-positive

True but what part did journalism play in that? They have got to keep asking questions but do it in a way that might actually unearth something.

blazing_saddles

Smeets has been trying to ram it down folk's throats on Avondetappe, too.
Up it crops every night, but unfortunately his guests are reluctant to play his game.

I'm afraid it's going to be the real legacy of the EPO (particularly 7 TDF Armstrong) era.

The only way to be perceived win the Tour "clean" is to do so by being very lucky with the first week, riding defensively, don't win a stage, not having a bad day and turning in the ITT of your life, without beating Martin or Cancellara.
Ironically, manage that and you might even be forgiven for the odd dodgy doping connection then, too.

thomthom

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

True but what part did journalism play in that? They have got to keep asking questions but do it in a way that might actually unearth something.

No no, but I was just pointing out that it's no surprise that the media keeps the aggressive line when they are constantly fed with new cases. It's not more than a month ago 2 Italian superstars were busted..

I don't agree with OP's 'let's just move on' btw. In fact, it couldn't be more wrong.

joelsim

One question. How many athletes in other sports have been caught doping in the last couple of months?

OK how many in cycling? Quite a few.

Those who suggest the sport is verging on clean are living in cloud cuckoo land in my opinion. I'm also not suggesting other sports are clean either.

Without a shadow of doubt it is cleaner than it was a decade ago...but then again it's not difficult to be cleaner than 99% of riders doping.

Let's also not forget that the doping precedent in cycling was set many decades ago, to the extent that it has always been the culture.

I will be very surprised if a number aren't caught in the next couple of weeks, Santambrogio's test was right at the start of the Giro yet the positive only came out after the race had finished. Bertie, no doubt, is being used as a pincushion at the moment which would probably explain why he's nowhere near the level he was in 2007-9.

The only way it will be truly stamped out is by lifetime bans for anyone caught, at the moment it's just a slap on the wrist and then welcomed back in. There are many many riders who have been linked to doping who are still in the peloton.

Macaloon

afx237vi wrote:

It's the Tour de France. Journalists who never cover cycling writing articles for people who only watch cycling once a year. The writers want easy copy and the readers want a story that can easily be put into context with what they know has happened in the sport in recent months.

It's gone beyond that. There are several prominent cycling journos banging the drum about 'transparency' and full-disclosure of power files, despite being well aware that it's proprietary performance data. They're hostages to the doperati who fed them during Armstrong's long dismount. Cycling's Tea Party drives the agenda for many.

Good OP EPO btw

slim_boy_fat

ThomThom wrote:

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

True but what part did journalism play in that? They have got to keep asking questions but do it in a way that might actually unearth something.

No no, but I was just pointing out that it's no surprise that the media keeps the aggressive line when they are constantly fed with new cases. It's not more than a month ago 2 Italian superstars were busted..

I don't agree with OP's 'let's just move on' btw. In fact, it couldn't be more wrong.

Fair enough. They need to move on in how they go about finding out the answers though?

Lanterne_Rogue

Joelsim wrote:

One question. How many athletes in other sports have been caught doping in the last couple of months?

OK how many in cycling? Quite a few.

More top sprinters than that, quite a few weight lifters, and an entire stable full of horses. It doesn't seem to get as much press as asking Chris Froome if he's doping though (as if he's about to answer 'yes'), and the hyperbolic accusations that cycling is currently experiencing is doing nothing to convince football or tennis to start testing properly...

joelsim

underlayunderlay wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

One question. How many athletes in other sports have been caught doping in the last couple of months?

OK how many in cycling? Quite a few.

More top sprinters than that, quite a few weight lifters, and an entire stable full of horses. It doesn't seem to get as much press as asking Chris Froome if he's doping though (as if he's about to answer 'yes'), and the hyperbolic accusations that cycling is currently experiencing is doing nothing to convince football or tennis to start testing properly...

I don't agree that sports such as football are as affected as much by doping. Yes, they can make you faster and stronger but you need timing, skill which are far more important. Xavi and Iniesta's strength is in their first touch and awareness, Zidane's was too.

I also don't think there would ever be an Omerta in other sports, like I said before, the culture of other sports is not doping possibly with the exception of athletics and other endurance sports where the effects are greater. If someone told me that Mo Farah had tested positive, or Usain Bolt it really wouldn't surprise me. Likewise Valverde, Cancellara, Quintana...what we don't see so often any more are the exceptional performances of years gone by where riders could fight and fight day after day and still perform til the bitter end. The glow time of a micro-dose of EPO is miniscule.

I do find it odd that many posters on here seem to think that it's pretty clean just because of the passport. Where there is a will, especially if it's been ingrained in the culture for so long, people will find a way.

No_Ta_Doctor

Joelsim wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

One question. How many athletes in other sports have been caught doping in the last couple of months?

OK how many in cycling? Quite a few.

More top sprinters than that, quite a few weight lifters, and an entire stable full of horses. It doesn't seem to get as much press as asking Chris Froome if he's doping though (as if he's about to answer 'yes'), and the hyperbolic accusations that cycling is currently experiencing is doing nothing to convince football or tennis to start testing properly...

I don't agree that sports such as football are as affected as much by doping. Yes, they can make you faster and stronger but you need timing, skill which are far more important. Xavi and Iniesta's strength is in their first touch and awareness, Zidane's was too.

I also don't think there would ever be an Omerta in other sports, like I said before, the culture of other sports is not doping possibly with the exception of athletics and other endurance sports where the effects are greater. If someone told me that Mo Farah had tested positive, or Usain Bolt it really wouldn't surprise me. Likewise Valverde, Cancellara, Quintana...what we don't see so often any more are the exceptional performances of years gone by where riders could fight and fight day after day and still perform til the bitter end. The glow time of a micro-dose of EPO is miniscule.

I do find it odd that many posters on here seem to think that it's pretty clean just because of the passport. Where there is a will, especially if it's been ingrained in the culture for so long, people will find a way.

Oh God, not the doping in football debate again....

1) Fuentes ahd a training plan for Barca
2) Juventus EPO - google it if you don't know the story.

RideOnTime

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Froomes not the only one getting p*ssed off with all the doping questions. I think the media themselves are now to blame.

They spent the best part of twenty years calling all cyclists cheats and trying to catch Armstrong, but the fact is they are still doing it. They, the media, are now behind the times. They wanted teams and the sport clean and now its getting that way what do they do? Query every win in the Tour with doping allegations, and in doing so, actually keep the sport in the dark ages.

If its about moving on, then everyone has to move on, including the media, interviewers, the sponsors, everyone.

Otherwise, whats the point in Froome smashing his heart and lungs out for 6 months in training, only to win a stage and be accused of doping? He may as well have saved himself the hassle and just have doped anyway, after all, hes pretty much being accused of doping with performances like Mt Ventoux, so whats the bloody point?

Come media, its time to play catch up and stop dragging the sport backwards.

I think as a reflection you should move on 'EPO delivery man'
Now what about a nice man on a moped delivering a lovely refreshing glass of water.

rick_chasey

Argh who cares.

I pitty people who can't enjoy what happens on the road.

Why d'ya watch it? I doubt many of us watched much in the pre epo days. If it got you hooked then mtfu.

So many athletes still talk about that Ben Johnson sprint. It's a sight they never forgot and blew them away at the time.

That feeling can't be taken back.

Ideally I want no doping for obvious reasons but I'll be f#cked if I let it ruin what I like about cycling.

rick_chasey

It's also a pointless question.

'Are you doping?'

Idiots.

Pross

Let's face it, it isn't just the media. There are plenty of people who claim to be cycling fans but cannot live without the excitement that doping brings to the extent they have to turn every thread into a 'debate' on the subject. The sad truth is that without doping the sport has no relevance to them. They claim to want a clean sport when it is the very opposite of what they want. I suspect they visit the gossip page of a paper before the sports page.

joelsim

Rick Chasey wrote:

Argh who cares.

I pitty people who can't enjoy what happens on the road.

Why d'ya watch it? I doubt many of us watched much in the pre epo days. If it got you hooked then mtfu.

So many athletes still talk about that Ben Johnson sprint. It's a sight they never forgot and blew them away at the time.

That feeling can't be taken back.

Ideally I want no doping for obvious reasons but I'll be f#cked if I let it ruin what I like about cycling.

Couldn't agree more Rick, I love watching it.

The thing is I'm totally not surprised when journos ask the question, and I find it difficult to understand those who are surprised given the history.

Cycling the only sport historically that has 'allowed' doping from the top to the bottom. Until that perception changes, hacks will continue to ask, irritating or not.

moray_gub

Joelsim wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

One question. How many athletes in other sports have been caught doping in the last couple of months?

OK how many in cycling? Quite a few.

More top sprinters than that, quite a few weight lifters, and an entire stable full of horses. It doesn't seem to get as much press as asking Chris Froome if he's doping though (as if he's about to answer 'yes'), and the hyperbolic accusations that cycling is currently experiencing is doing nothing to convince football or tennis to start testing properly...

I don't agree that sports such as football are as affected as much by doping. Yes, they can make you faster and stronger but you need timing, skill which are far more important. Xavi and Iniesta's strength is in their first touch and awareness, Zidane's was too.

I.

Speaking as an ex footballer when your fitness goes and your breathing out yer arse the first touch timing and awareness go as well.....i would imagine EPO would be a huge advantage for a footballer.

edit : not that i had much of first touch anyway :-)

Lanterne_Rogue

Joelsim wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

One question. How many athletes in other sports have been caught doping in the last couple of months?

OK how many in cycling? Quite a few.

More top sprinters than that, quite a few weight lifters, and an entire stable full of horses. It doesn't seem to get as much press as asking Chris Froome if he's doping though (as if he's about to answer 'yes'), and the hyperbolic accusations that cycling is currently experiencing is doing nothing to convince football or tennis to start testing properly...

I don't agree that sports such as football are as affected as much by doping. Yes, they can make you faster and stronger but you need timing, skill which are far more important. Xavi and Iniesta's strength is in their first touch and awareness, Zidane's was too.

I also don't think there would ever be an Omerta in other sports, like I said before, the culture of other sports is not doping possibly with the exception of athletics and other endurance sports where the effects are greater. If someone told me that Mo Farah had tested positive, or Usain Bolt it really wouldn't surprise me. Likewise Valverde, Cancellara, Quintana...what we don't see so often any more are the exceptional performances of years gone by where riders could fight and fight day after day and still perform til the bitter end. The glow time of a micro-dose of EPO is miniscule.

I do find it odd that many posters on here seem to think that it's pretty clean just because of the passport. Where there is a will, especially if it's been ingrained in the culture for so long, people will find a way.

The horse racing board have just announced that they will keep the results of the Godolphin investigation private - seriously, one of the biggest stables in the world appears to be systematically doping their horses and the result is a press release and nothing more. This is omerta at the highest level, as is the ludicrous amount of proper doping controls in tennis (fewer than 30 blood tests in 2011, iirc). Football and tennis may be games of skill, but the fitness levels are going up all the time as the competition heats up and it seems silly to argue that drugs won't provide a shortcut to an advantage - if you're still able to sprint in the 90th minute and the bloke with the silky touch can't get near you, you're going to have a better chance of scoring.

For the record, I don't think cycling is fully clean. I do however think that it's cleaner than most sports out there, and certainly takes doping a lot more seriously. Part of that is because drugs were always a part of cycling - at first openly - and because of that baggage more questions are asked than of other sports, both internally and externally. I also think that a lot of people who are throwing accusations around at the moment are doing so because they're looking forward to telling us how clever they were in a few years. It's an easy bet to make - if you're wrong, and nothing comes out in the wash, you simply congratulate yourself at having seen through the conspiracy that still protects Sky.

rick_chasey

Like my badly enforced steak joke ban, every time i come across a pointless or spurious doping accusation I'm going to question their cycling fan credentials. Relentlessly.

joelsim

Moray Gub wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

One question. How many athletes in other sports have been caught doping in the last couple of months?

OK how many in cycling? Quite a few.

More top sprinters than that, quite a few weight lifters, and an entire stable full of horses. It doesn't seem to get as much press as asking Chris Froome if he's doping though (as if he's about to answer 'yes'), and the hyperbolic accusations that cycling is currently experiencing is doing nothing to convince football or tennis to start testing properly...

I don't agree that sports such as football are as affected as much by doping. Yes, they can make you faster and stronger but you need timing, skill which are far more important. Xavi and Iniesta's strength is in their first touch and awareness, Zidane's was too.

I.

Speaking as an ex footballer when your fitness goes and your breathing out yer ars* the first touch timing and awareness go as well.....i would imagine EPO would be a huge advantage for a footballer.

edit : not that i had much of first touch anyway :-)

You're probably right. Look at Ferdinand's missed test - he's never run anywhere in his life

joelsim

Rick Chasey wrote:

Like my badly enforced steak joke ban, every time i come across a pointless or spurious doping accusation I'm going to question their cycling fan credentials. Relentlessly.

You are allowed to be a cycling fan and suspicious aren't you?