Full suspension bike as a 'keeper'

mac_man

OK, so I'm finally looking at my first ever full suspension bike, after 4 years riding a Rockhopper. I like the bike but felt the bike (and me) have been out of their depth on some of the descents I did in Spain this year. I reckon something around 140/150mm travel would be more than enough. I'm not interested in doing any big drops or jumps. Well not yet anyway.

Being somewhat careful (ie tight) with money I'm looking for a bike that will last. One that's bulletproof in terms of componentry and be easy and cheapish to maintain.

Budgetwise I can't spend more than around £1500 and I'll be looking at both new and 2nd hand. So... am I better off looking at a 2nd had simple classic, like a 5 or Heckler or a Prophet. Or are multilink bikes just as reliable these days? Pauls Cycles has some great deals on Scotts and Cannondales.

Or do these require a lot more maintenance?

And do the direct sales bikes like Canyon have any long term reliability issues? Ditto stuff like the Boardman FS, which has great components but will the frame start falling apart in a few years?

Components... I was thinking SLX or X9. Forks and Shocks - do RS need less maintenance than Fox, which seems to be common thinking.

I quite like the idea of a Heckler as it's better looking than the 5 and will probably still look good in 5 years time when other makers have gone through 3 design changes. Would a simple no nonsense build still come in at a reasonable weight? Say 30-32lbs. Or am I just falling for the hype of a 'boutique' brand here?

Totally open to ideas and I'm not a brand snob.

So... any ideas from people that have had their bikes more than a few years?

estampida

so I bought a Kona coiler in 2003 and still use it as my bombing around bike, drops and all....

no original parts apart from the l/h shifter, air shock and forks and lots of bling so just sub 30lb, but this was done over 10 years of use.

works well and is starting to take on retro chic, also the fact a bearing kit is £20 on ebay makes it an easy keeper

poah

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=55733

1299 for a 2011 bike originally cost 2199. if you look for bikes that are last year or the year before you will get a good deal on cost. I very rarly buy this years model of kit as there is generally very little difference.

warpcow

My Heckler cost about £1200 with 2nd-hand frame and forks (and not including my GD post). I did only have it about 18 months, but not entirely out of choice (it was used too little to be financially justifiable). Weight-wise it came in at 31.5lbs in the end, with coil chock, dropper post, 160mm forks, and 1x10, but it could have been a little less with a less 'aggro' build. They're cheap enough 2nd-hand that they don't lose much if you sell them either.

supersonic

One of these?

http://www.biketart.com/244829/products ... tAod03IArA

mac_man

Thanks guys... keep them coming. The genesis looks decent value now... spec looks similar to the Boardman, but slightly more travel. Would never pay £2.5K though...

Kowalski675

mac man wrote:

Thanks guys... keep them coming. The genesis looks decent value now... spec looks similar to the Boardman, but slightly more travel. Would never pay £2.5K though...

That supposed RRP is crazy. From the spec list I can't really see where it's worth the extra £400 over my Boardman, never mind £2249.99.

mac_man

Kowalski675 wrote:

mac man wrote:

Thanks guys... keep them coming. The genesis looks decent value now... spec looks similar to the Boardman, but slightly more travel. Would never pay £2.5K though...

That supposed RRP is crazy. From the spec list I can't really see where it's worth the extra £400 over my Boardman, never mind £2249.99.

I know....

I keep coming back to this fella, as well as the Boardman: http://www.radon-bikes.de/xist4c/web/Sl ... 22296_.htm

And the Canyons... http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes ... ab-reiter2

Kowalski675

I looked at the Canyons and Radons too, but at the end of the day the Boardman just seemed too good a deal to pass up at £850 (given the ridiculous levels bike prices have spiralled to in the last few years that's practically giving it away), plus most of the Canyons are either on a long wait for delivery, or completely sold out for this year.

punkatron1

I'm getting shot of my Boardman fs and have a genesis grapil 10 on order. Paid £1050, but got the last 18. They had a 20inch left.

The boardman looks great, but its so flexy and hasn't worn very well. The paint flakes off in large chunks and is easy to scratch. It might be good value now,but its not lasted well. The tyres have worn grooves in the rear triangle and I've only got 2.3 tyres on and the pivots have always been a pain to keep tight.

I'd still be riding my 1998 heckler if I hadn't bent the chain stay on a rock last year.

mac_man

punkatron1 wrote:

I'm getting shot of my Boardman fs and have a genesis grapil 10 on order. Paid £1050, but got the last 18. They had a 20inch left.

The boardman looks great, but its so flexy and hasn't worn very well. The paint flakes off in large chunks and is easy to scratch. It might be good value now,but its not lasted well. The tyres have worn grooves in the rear triangle and I've only got 2.3 tyres on and the pivots have always been a pain to keep tight.

I'd still be riding my 1998 heckler if I hadn't bent the chain stay on a rock last year.

Thanks... exactly the kind of feedback I've been wanting. How long have you had the Boardman? And is it one of the current models? I remember the original FS models had a reputation for being a touch flexy.

What makes you think the Grapil will not be Crap(il)?

It's the same thing I wonder about the Radons and Canyons... great on paper, but maybe not that well enough screwed together to last 5+ years. if you change your bike every year it's no big deal.

Obviously all things wear, but it's like those Merc W124s. They really were old school Mercedes, and with proper TLC, reliable and tough as old boots. I'm looking for the bike equivalent I guess

punkatron1

Its the current Boardman FS. Agree with your Merc analogy, the Boardman is not of that ilk. I had that Heckler from New in 1998 and it just kept going, until I let it down and crashed it.

What makes me think the Grapil won"t be crap....Well I'm hopeful of the fact that its got Norglide bushings means they've thought about the design. Also, as its from a British brand that produces burly long travel hard tails I've got reason to be optimistic.

Having said that, after a few winters in the Peak District any bike is going to show a bit of wear and tear. If you want 5+ years out of a bike then I'd go for a true single pivot - i.e. Heckler, Orange 5 or similar. If I wanted a guaranteed 5+ years I'd go for a hard tail. My 456 Summer Season still looks fantastic and can mix it with the FS boys.

Although that Canyon in the Hornet colour scheme looks mint.

mac_man

punkatron1 wrote:

Its the current Boardman FS. Agree with your Merc analogy, the Boardman is not of that ilk. I had that Heckler from New in 1998 and it just kept going, until I let it down and crashed it.

What makes me think the Grapil won"t be crap....Well I'm hopeful of the fact that its got Norglide bushings means they've thought about the design. Also, as its from a British brand that produces burly long travel hard tails I've got reason to be optimistic.

Having said that, after a few winters in the Peak District any bike is going to show a bit of wear and tear. If you want 5+ years out of a bike then I'd go for a true single pivot - i.e. Heckler, Orange 5 or similar. If I wanted a guaranteed 5+ years I'd go for a hard tail. My 456 Summer Season still looks fantastic and can mix it with the FS boys.

Thanks... am looking for a bit more comfort as well... hence FS. I think I might be leaning more towards single pivot. I do a lot of riding round Calderdale as well, which is just as gritty as the Peaks. See a lot of Orange 5s round here... might be something to do with them being built down the road

But the looks are a bit marmite. And I hate Marmite. Much prefer the looks of the Heckler.

Maybe a Heckler with Pikes, SLX transmission, and the Hope Pro 2s off my Rockhopper.

punkatron1

Heckler with Pikes, SLX and Hope hoops would be a great bike.

Thewaylander

See this the thing i dont get,

Yes shiny parts are good but the most important part of a bike is how it rides, pure comparison by components is useless unless the bikes are exactly the same.

above a certain level all the components work pretty well and are reliable, higher ones are better but to me personally there are 3 parts which really long term effect my purchase of a bike, (full sus) frame, shocks and wheels everything else is cheap to replace and is pretty much wear and tear parts. so i honestly say test ride and buy what you enjoy.

jairaj

Thewaylander wrote:

so i honestly say test ride and buy what you enjoy.

Bang on! Especially if you have not tried a lot of rear suss bikes. They really do feel different, some you will like, some you won't. Personally I'd find it hard to spend that kind of money without having tried it first.

mac_man

Thewaylander wrote:

See this the thing i dont get,

Yes shiny parts are good but the most important part of a bike is how it rides, pure comparison by components is useless unless the bikes are exactly the same.

above a certain level all the components work pretty well and are reliable, higher ones are better but to me personally there are 3 parts which really long term effect my purchase of a bike, (full sus) frame, shocks and wheels everything else is cheap to replace and is pretty much wear and tear parts. so i honestly say test ride and buy what you enjoy.

And this is why I want a decent frame that will last... that won't start going flexy after a couple of years, or need a whole new bearing set every few months, plus a wheelset that will do the same, and shocks that don't need servicing every few rides.

Agreed that wearable components, for me personally, are not worth spending mega bucks on to save a few grams here and there. Hence trusty reliable SLX or Deore for transmission and brakes.

mac_man

jairaj wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

so i honestly say test ride and buy what you enjoy.

Bang on! Especially if you have not tried a lot of rear suss bikes. They really do feel different, some you will like, some you won't. Personally I'd find it hard to spend that kind of money without having tried it first.

Also true...

Only tried a handful to be honest, and they were quite different. Will have to see if any mates have what I'm looking for and ask to have a go... queue inevitable stack on first outing.

Just looking to narrow down options.

Had a look at a cheapish Meta 55, but it looked flimsy. I wish there was a reliability index for bikes and components somewhere, like with cars. so you could see what bikes had more frame failures, which forks needed more servicing etc.

BTW... Are Marin the only ones that give a lifetime warranty on bearings?

jairaj

I believe Whyte used to offer the same too. But check if this only applies to the original owner.

punkatron1

Thewaylander wrote:

See this the thing i dont get,

Yes shiny parts are good but the most important part of a bike is how it rides, pure comparison by components is useless unless the bikes are exactly the same.

above a certain level all the components work pretty well and are reliable, higher ones are better but to me personally there are 3 parts which really long term effect my purchase of a bike, (full sus) frame, shocks and wheels everything else is cheap to replace and is pretty much wear and tear parts. so i honestly say test ride and buy what you enjoy.

What's to get? We've been talking about reliable frames up until now. Seemed like a heckler was the way forward with a proposed fork, group set an wheels. Problem with forums is people always seem to miss the point and deflect the conversation to something else.

supersonic

Good single pivot frames with good bearings are no more or less reliable than good multi pivot frames with good bearings. Yes there are more bearings to replace when the time comes, but quality and design is what counts. A flexy, small bearinged single pivot frame can eat bearings with all the load concentrated on one pivot.

mac_man

supersonic wrote:

Good single pivot frames with good bearings are no more or less reliable than good multi pivot frames with good bearings. Yes there are more bearings to replace when the time comes, but quality and design is what counts. A flexy, small bearinged single pivot frame can eat bearings with all the load concentrated on one pivot.

So what should a person be looking for in terms of quality? How can you tell if a Trek is better than a Marin, or a Lapierre? Or if at all? Or does it really matter?

Are there some frames that are definitively better or worse than others. Like I said, I looked at a Meta and it looked very spindly, with tiny bearings... so when compared to the iron girder that is the swingarm on a 5... but which is better? In terms of longevity, that is.

supersonic

It is hard to say lol. Reviews are a starter, and well written rider feedback. Just have to research really.

The Marin lifetime warranty is definitely a bonus.

Basically don't let the fact it is multi pivot put you off, it may just ride better - a lot better even.

mac_man

supersonic wrote:

It is hard to say lol. Reviews are a starter, and well written rider feedback. Just have to research really.

The Marin lifetime warranty is definitely a bonus.

Basically don't let the fact it is multi pivot put you off, it may just ride better - a lot better even.

Thanks SS

Lot to think about...
I'm not in a position to be able to afford to swap and change bikes every yer or 2, so any purchase will have to be good as well as be reliable.