Boasson Hagan out

Tom Butcher

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Well if it spices up the tour a bit all to the good unsporting or not. For my money this has been a dull race - yes there have been a few interesting sprint finishes and the one day in the Pyrenees promised for a while but never delivered bit that's a poor return on what is the premier race of the year.

I think people sometimes expect too much from the Tour...

There have been some of the best sprint stages I've seen - OGE Bus, Kittel coming round Cav, Veelers crash, Bakelants by 1 second, Cannondale 150km leadout etc.

and stage 9 is a classic - Just because Froome didn't lose any time in the end doesn't make it a boring or dull stage. The opening was great with Garmin, Movistar and Saxo attacking, then Quintana attacking later and being marked by Froome was good TV.. all followed up by a nice breakaway finish from Martin and Fuglsang.

Did I say it was a boring stage? It was an ok stage, hardly a classic, if we are picking that out as a highlight then it says something about the race so far. And if a bus getting stuck or someone falling off because Cav nudges them are the best of the rest...well it's all subjective I suppose but that's not my idea of a memorable TdF. The Giro wasn't a classic wier this year but so far I'd have it ahead on points - still time yet though.

Tom Butcher

cyclingsheep wrote:

goonz wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Well if it spices up the tour a bit all to the good unsporting or not. For my money this has been a dull race - yes there have been a few interesting sprint finishes and the one day in the Pyrenees promised for a while but never delivered bit that's a poor return on what is the premier race of the year.

As mentioned above what about Bakelants win and OGE actually winning some stages?

I sometimes wonder what people want from the races, constant attacks on pan flat stages?

First we want clean riding, then we want super human feats? Something not quite right.

Think it's a combination of people remembering races with rose tinted glasses and forgetting there were 'boring' stages in them as well and people not knowing what 'clean' racing should look like. It will be tough for the next few years or decades even as our sport cleans itself up and races become realistic but in the end the real racing fans will remain.

The "clean" classics were pretty good this year. There is no reason clean racing should be any less exciting than juiced racing - if anything quite the opposite as clean riders should be more vulnerable to fluctuations in form. No I don't want attacks on pan flat stages - but how about fewer stages that are pan flat? It's not about wanting super human feats - it's about wanting exciting unpredictable racing where the advantage swings one way then the other.

goonz

Tom Butcher wrote:

The Giro wasn't a classic wier this year but so far I'd have it ahead on points - still time yet though.

Do you mind me asking why? Apart from the weather causing havoc and a few attacks hardly anything of note happened.

goonz

Tom Butcher wrote:

cyclingsheep wrote:

goonz wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Well if it spices up the tour a bit all to the good unsporting or not. For my money this has been a dull race - yes there have been a few interesting sprint finishes and the one day in the Pyrenees promised for a while but never delivered bit that's a poor return on what is the premier race of the year.

As mentioned above what about Bakelants win and OGE actually winning some stages?

I sometimes wonder what people want from the races, constant attacks on pan flat stages?

First we want clean riding, then we want super human feats? Something not quite right.

Think it's a combination of people remembering races with rose tinted glasses and forgetting there were 'boring' stages in them as well and people not knowing what 'clean' racing should look like. It will be tough for the next few years or decades even as our sport cleans itself up and races become realistic but in the end the real racing fans will remain.

The "clean" classics were pretty good this year. There is no reason clean racing should be any less exciting than juiced racing - if anything quite the opposite as clean riders should be more vulnerable to fluctuations in form. No I don't want attacks on pan flat stages - but how about fewer stages that are pan flat? It's not about wanting super human feats - it's about wanting exciting unpredictable racing where the advantage swings one way then the other.

Do you realise how much these stages must take out of the riders?

Brutally difficult stages and a lot of the riders sometimes decide they have had enough or want to protest. they do need to rest in between too.

Also classics are over one day so you can give that much extra as you know you dont need to recover. This is a 3 week race, do you realise what that means in terms of stress on the body?

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

Did anyone ever get the bottom of the Cassani claim about Kiriyienka last Sunday? Basically he said other teams wouldn't give him water / etc when he was dropped.

I've seen some reliable people say it was true. A couple added that the broom wagon driver was helpful and sorted him out with some food and water.

above_the_cows

If true that Kiryienka wasn't given water by anyone when he asked for it, that is not just unsporting, that is quite frankly down right scandalous. Denying anyone water is never acceptable, especially someone cycling through the Pyrenees in the height of summer. It's dangerous and a very sad way of 'spicing' up the race.

goonz

Above The Cows wrote:

It's dangerous and a very sad way of 'spicing' up the race.

Nearly as bad as stupid owners letting their dogs run free

graeme_s-2

Above The Cows wrote:

If true that Kiryienka wasn't given water by anyone when he asked for it, that is not just unsporting, that is quite frankly down right scandalous. Denying anyone water is never acceptable, especially someone cycling through the Pyrenees in the height of summer. It's dangerous and a very sad way of 'spicing' up the race.

They dismissed it on the ITV podcast recorded the evening after as something that just wouldn't happen. Be very sad indeed if it is true.

Paulie W

frenchfighter wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Did anyone ever get the bottom of the Cassani claim about Kiriyienka last Sunday? Basically he said other teams wouldn't give him water / etc when he was dropped.

Lol. Didn`t hear that but it doesn`t surprise me at all. I`ve read numerous times from credible people that they have no friends.

In contrast to this story, Thomas has tweeted about just how much support he's had in the peloton - emotional and physical! Could be as much about indviduals as teams maybe (although I've no idea how popular Kyrienka is).

above_the_cows

Graeme_S wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

If true that Kiryienka wasn't given water by anyone when he asked for it, that is not just unsporting, that is quite frankly down right scandalous. Denying anyone water is never acceptable, especially someone cycling through the Pyrenees in the height of summer. It's dangerous and a very sad way of 'spicing' up the race.

They dismissed it on the ITV podcast recorded the evening after as something that just wouldn't happen. Be very sad indeed if it is true.

I know everyone dismissed it as something that wouldn't happen because it flies against the 'unwritten rules of the peloton' and basic human decency, so I really hope it isn't true. It's sad that such an idea can actually even gain any traction at all.

graeme_s-2

I suppose the only person who really knows the truth is Kiryienka. Any quotes from him on this?

above_the_cows

I haven't seen anything from Kiryienka.

hammerite

Even if Sky aren't liked I can't imagine Kiryienka is disliked so much that others would do that to him. I know a lot of fans seem to like him because of the way he turns himself inside out to do his job, surely a lot of teams ecognise this too.

Macaloon

goonz wrote:

Whats he sitting on? :shock:

Think he's on his way back down after trying to stand & flex right shoulder.

Tom Butcher

goonz wrote:

Do you realise how much these stages must take out of the riders?

Brutally difficult stages and a lot of the riders sometimes decide they have had enough or want to protest. they do need to rest in between too.

Also classics are over one day so you can give that much extra as you know you dont need to recover. This is a 3 week race, do you realise what that means in terms of stress on the body?

Of course it takes a lot out of them it's the TdF isn't it - it's supposed to - that's the point. You can have relatively easier stages with a bit of a sting in the tail - which is what the Giro had lots of this year - and while that wasn't the best edition I think those finishes raised it above what the Tour has served up...so far.

The fact remains that this is a relatively uneventful race up til now - a bus getting stuck, OGE winning a few stages and a small controversy over Cav is not a lot. I'd have thought that's a relatively uncontroversial view but apparently not.

And as far as the Classics goes - the point was that you don't have to be juiced to have have attacking racing - if you want examples of stage racing then there have been some good grand tours in the last couple of years too. The Vuelta last year was an absolute cracker - despite some people on here saying it was far too hard on the riders.

cyclingsheep

goonz wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

cyclingsheep wrote:

goonz wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Well if it spices up the tour a bit all to the good unsporting or not. For my money this has been a dull race - yes there have been a few interesting sprint finishes and the one day in the Pyrenees promised for a while but never delivered bit that's a poor return on what is the premier race of the year.

As mentioned above what about Bakelants win and OGE actually winning some stages?

I sometimes wonder what people want from the races, constant attacks on pan flat stages?

First we want clean riding, then we want super human feats? Something not quite right.

Think it's a combination of people remembering races with rose tinted glasses and forgetting there were 'boring' stages in them as well and people not knowing what 'clean' racing should look like. It will be tough for the next few years or decades even as our sport cleans itself up and races become realistic but in the end the real racing fans will remain.

The "clean" classics were pretty good this year. There is no reason clean racing should be any less exciting than juiced racing - if anything quite the opposite as clean riders should be more vulnerable to fluctuations in form. No I don't want attacks on pan flat stages - but how about fewer stages that are pan flat? It's not about wanting super human feats - it's about wanting exciting unpredictable racing where the advantage swings one way then the other.

Do you realise how much these stages must take out of the riders?

Brutally difficult stages and a lot of the riders sometimes decide they have had enough or want to protest. they do need to rest in between too.

Also classics are over one day so you can give that much extra as you know you dont need to recover. This is a 3 week race, do you realise what that means in terms of stress on the body?

+1
to compare racing in the classics to a GT just doesn't add up, physically it's just not possible to race like that for three weeks. Besides there are racing fans who love the sprint stages and dislike the mountain stages so you can't please everyone all of the time. However it might have been nice after the Pyrenean (spelt wrong I know) stages to throw in one like the stage Sagan won when everyone was tired so a breakaway might stand more of a chance to stay away.