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Zipp Firecrest 404 Carbon Clincher

Mike03776Mike03776 Posts: 40
edited July 2013 in Road buying advice
I am on the very very edge of buying this wheelset. The reviews look outstanding and I've always been a big fan zipp's stuff.

Anyone got a pair of these, or does anyone wanna convince me otherwise before I go ahead and buy them?

Posts

  • junglist_mattyjunglist_matty Posts: 1,731
    Are you buying for TT events?
  • Mike03776Mike03776 Posts: 40
    Not just for TT, road racing as well, it's quite a nice balance between the two.

    You're going to mention tubs aren't you? I've had nightmares with tubs before, puncturing when riding out to a TT etc. figured they're not really worth the hassle.
  • TheSmithersTheSmithers Posts: 291
    For around half the price you could get what I'm getting: viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12931177
    http://app.strava.com/athletes/2086404
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    Tubs are no more hassle the clinchers. Buy Reynolds 46 tubs instead.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • thegreatdividethegreatdivide Posts: 5,790
    I chewed over 404's for a while but ended up going 303 FC because it just seemed like a better option. Lighter, can be used on hill climb TT's as well as flat ones, aero difference between the two is very minimal, a bit better handling in cross winds.

    LOL @ Grill 'Sponsored by Reynolds' ;-)
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    LOL @ Grill 'Sponsored by Reynolds' ;-)

    Cheaper, lighter, stronger, and if they don't start sending me free wheels soon I'm swapping to Corima! :P
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    Grill wrote:
    Tubs are no more hassle the clinchers. Buy Reynolds 46 tubs instead.

    My TT bike has tubs. Zipp 808 front and Zipp disc rear. They are much more hassle than clinchers in my opinion. Fitted with brand new Conti Competition tubs at the start of the season I have experienced a pinch flat from a pothole on the front in a 25 and on Saturday a pinch flat on the rear from a small pothole. Now I always thought that resistance to pinch flats was supposedly a benefit of tubs! Tyres were pumped up hard, 100psi in the front and 120psi in the rear when these occurred. The front flat was a really sharp edged pothole, but the rear flatted with a comparatively benign bump in the road. Ruined my first 100m TT. :-(

    So why more hassle? Well, to change a well stuck on tub takes a lot of time and effort. I spent an hour or so yesterday removing the tub and cleaning up the rim. I know some say you don't need to remove the glue off the rim, but for me I prefer to start with it clean. I have ordered a new Force tub for the rear, due in tomorrow, but it will then need to sit on a rim for a day or two to stretch to make fitting easier.

    Then you have to glue the rim, glue the tape and allow to touch dry. Then glue once more and fit the tub. Straighten everything up by removing, twisting and re-bedding the tyre then roll back and forwards with weight on to settle it all in. Follow Continental's recommendation to leave it for 24hrs to cure before riding on it.

    Then we come to repairing the punctured tub......

    Now, with a clincher, remove the tube, maybe the tyre as well, but maybe not. Check for debris and damage, put a new tube in (couple of quid), refit the tyre, pump up and ride. Even repairing the tube is far, far simpler, but for a couple of quid for a new one many feel it is not worth repairing a tube. Can't say that about a £60 tubular...

    Which bit do reckon means tubulars are no more hassle than clinchers? I'm intrigued.

    PP
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    I run the tubs on my TT and road bikes between 140-160psi. If you puncture during a TT or crit you're done regardless of tyre choice. Other than that if it takes more than 5 minutes to swap a tub then you're doing it wrong. Not to mention the added benefit of lighter wheels and tyres that won't blow off the rim.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • smidsysmidsy Posts: 5,273
    I would read this first

    viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12930739#p18417347
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • giant_mangiant_man Posts: 6,878
    smidsy wrote:
    I would read this first

    viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12930739#p18417347
    Yeah, just a bit, and that's apart from the hub issues you hear about. i was all ready for a pair of 202 FCs but recently i have been kinda put off ...
  • thegreatdividethegreatdivide Posts: 5,790
    I’ll hold you to that scare story and give you a Zipp/SRAM warranty good news story.

    My riding mate bought some second hand SRAM wheels from eBay. The back hub ceased up. He took it to our LBS who sent it back to SRAM and SRAM sent over a brand new wheel – no questions asked. This same mate then bunny hopped off the kerb a few too many times (yeah, yeah, we’ve told him he’s a fool) and knocked the rear out of true. He then attempted to true it himself (his first attempt at said maintenance) and pretty much ruined the wheel. Same LBS sent the wheel back to SRAM who had now stopped making the wheels – and sent him a brand new pair of Zipp 101’s! He’s now run into a pot hole and knocked the rear out of true again – but has been advised not to push his luck by the LBS.
  • smidsysmidsy Posts: 5,273
    Seems SRAM is the hero there and not Zipp, so my comment still stands :-)
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • thegreatdividethegreatdivide Posts: 5,790
    smidsy wrote:
    Seems SRAM is the hero there and not Zipp, so my comment still stands :-)

    SRAM is Zipp
  • smidsysmidsy Posts: 5,273
    Really? I did not know that.

    Well I also think I should point out that a well built wheel with good even tension and good brass nipples etc. should not be go out of true just by hitting a few holes in the road.

    So I would still stay well clear of Zipp.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    If you're prepared to pay Zipp prices, look at Enve who have a far better reputation for durability.
    Go for clinchers is you're looking to buy more expensive, heavier and fragile wheels.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    Monty Dog wrote:
    If you're prepared to pay Zipp prices, look at Enve who have a far better reputation for durability.
    Go for clinchers is you're looking to buy more expensive, heavier and fragile wheels.

    ENVE + Alchemy ELF/ORC = Sex on wheels
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    smidsy wrote:
    Seems SRAM is the hero there and not Zipp, so my comment still stands :-)

    SRAM is Zipp


    Oooh, I didn't know that. Not that it makes any difference - I'd already decided I didn't really like Zipp as a brand but now I know that they are made by the same people who made the Avid brakes on my MTB (censored ) and the Truvativ bottom bracket on my MTB (censored ) I feel a lot more justified in my prejudice! :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • smidsysmidsy Posts: 5,273
    It is only prejudice if it is unjustified. So we are very correct in our distain for all things over priced and over hyped :-)
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • FransJacquesFransJacques Posts: 2,148
    Rolf F wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    smidsy wrote:
    Seems SRAM is the hero there and not Zipp, so my comment still stands :-)

    SRAM is Zipp

    Oooh, I didn't know that.
    Dude, have you and smidsy been living under the same rock?

    I have a 303 FC clincher front and a 404 FC clincher rear. First the front: I run a 23mm ZX on it and it's the best. I've never owned deep wheels before but have borrowed them and there is a notice-able difference to this wheel. The bike is faster and the braking is good. The wheel is stiff, comfortable and it corners a bit wonkier than my Ardennes or CL24 but it was worth the money.

    The 404 rear OTOH is a bit of a joke. It's a TT wheel, certainly not a crit wheel. At 83 kgs I'm at the top end of it's weight but it's a freakin noodle when cornering hard. I could feel it rubbing when cranking around corners when I first raced it and the rear hub loosened up (common and easily fixed teething problem) but the flex issue isn't good. I have since raced a 100km RR with the rear and it was better but I could still feel it rub when climbing out of the saddle. On a good note it rode well and was comfortable.

    The options for the 404 is to rebuild it 3x or at least 2x both sides to increase the stiffness. Can anyone suggest a good stiff rear hub for a bigger guy such as me? Other option is to sell it to you? :-)

    Defo look at Enves and the Bontrager 5s. When looking at the Enves check out the SMART rim which fat like a bullet and not the classic. You want the latest shape I assume...
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • smidsysmidsy Posts: 5,273
    FransJacques wrote:
    Dude, have you and smidsy been living under the same rock?

    I have a 303 FC clincher it corners a bit wonkier than my Ardennes or CL24 so it was not worth the money.

    The 404 rear OTOH is a bit of a joke. I could feel it rubbing when cranking around corners when I first raced it and the rear hub loosened up. The flex issue isn't good.

    FTFY

    As for rocks and noodles I would say that is what you have. You buy a £1500 set of wheels that corner wonky with loose hubs and flexes yet you think I am the one with the wrong opinion :roll:
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • FransJacquesFransJacques Posts: 2,148
    Thanks for pointing that out, it's the front that I like and it WAS worth the money. The aero difference is noticeable. What I was describing above was you defo notice the 303 on turn-in. Mid-corner it's ok but during a race on Sunday 1 or 2 times in a gust one had to concentrate on a turn in.

    The 404 is also fast, very fast, both wheels allow greater speed than all my others, it's just a noodle.

    Don't worry about not being up on the industries latest, you have others to recap for you: SRAM owns Rockshox, Zipp, Truvativ, and Avid.
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    FransJacques wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    smidsy wrote:
    Seems SRAM is the hero there and not Zipp, so my comment still stands :-)

    SRAM is Zipp

    Oooh, I didn't know that.
    Dude, have you and smidsy been living under the same rock?

    Yep - both slugs together!

    TBH, Zipp make shallow rim wheels that seem to offer no advantage over other brands at considerably lower prices. They also make deep rim wheels which for all I know are the best you can get (though evidence on here would suggest otherwise) but no deep rim wheel is ever getting anywhere near the dropouts of any of my bikes on principal! They make seemingly unjustifiably expensive ugly branded handlebars. That is the limit of my knowledge of Zipp but it is enough (though of course now I know they also make terrible brakes and bottom brackets though the forks and road groupsets seem to be liked).

    If I did want to spend Zipp money on a pair of wheels I'd go for a less obvious brand anyway.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • TheSmithersTheSmithers Posts: 291
    Rolf F wrote:
    FransJacques wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    smidsy wrote:
    Seems SRAM is the hero there and not Zipp, so my comment still stands :-)

    SRAM is Zipp

    Oooh, I didn't know that.
    Dude, have you and smidsy been living under the same rock?

    Yep - both slugs together!

    TBH, Zipp make shallow rim wheels that seem to offer no advantage over other brands at considerably lower prices. They also make deep rim wheels which for all I know are the best you can get (though evidence on here would suggest otherwise) but no deep rim wheel is ever getting anywhere near the dropouts of any of my bikes on principal! They make seemingly unjustifiably expensive ugly branded handlebars. That is the limit of my knowledge of Zipp but it is enough (though of course now I know they also make terrible brakes and bottom brackets though the forks and road groupsets seem to be liked).

    If I did want to spend Zipp money on a pair of wheels I'd go for a less obvious brand anyway.

    Or just do what I've done and get a pair of aero wheels from Wheelsmith for half the price of Zipp. In the real world, you probably wouldn't even notice the difference. After reading this thread, I know I've made the right choice. Every man and his wife seems to have Zipps anyway. If I were going to blow a couple of grand on wheels, I'd get Enves anyway. They seem a lot more exclusive.
    http://app.strava.com/athletes/2086404
  • spasypaddyspasypaddy Posts: 5,180
    enve wheels are better than zipps.
    BMC TM01 - FCN 0
    Look 695 (Geared) - FCN 1
    Bowman Palace:R - FCN 1
    Cannondale CAAD 9 - FCN 2
    Premier (CX) - FCN 6
    Premier (fixed/SS) - FCN3
  • Dick ScruttockDick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    spasypaddy wrote:
    enve wheels are better than zipps.

    Says who?
  • spasypaddyspasypaddy Posts: 5,180
    Rick Draper wrote:
    spasypaddy wrote:
    enve wheels are better than zipps.

    Says who?
    me :wink:
    BMC TM01 - FCN 0
    Look 695 (Geared) - FCN 1
    Bowman Palace:R - FCN 1
    Cannondale CAAD 9 - FCN 2
    Premier (CX) - FCN 6
    Premier (fixed/SS) - FCN3
  • FransJacquesFransJacques Posts: 2,148
    As long as you're talking about the Smart rims I agree they're very interesting proposition compared to the Zipps. I liked the ones I rode but they were the deepest ones available which was more wheel than I needed.

    So, OP, how much do you weigh? Are you a powerful rider or smooth? Do you race? These are important questions when deciding...
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • saprkzzsaprkzz Posts: 592
    spasypaddy wrote:
    Rick Draper wrote:
    spasypaddy wrote:
    enve wheels are better than zipps.

    Says who?
    me :wink:

    That seemed pretty obvious by your first post haha! :lol:
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