OT: House moving snafu

dhope

My first purchase... Expected to exchange yesterday, complete on Friday.

Call today from my seller's agent - the property they're buying is still waiting on enquiries - this is news to everyone apparently. So the Friday completion is off the cards, likely going to be a week later.
I have to move out of my current rental next Wednesday... so my 4 day overlap is now a 3 day gap.

What's the protocol on this? Can I expect the seller to recompense anyone as they're the ones that're fscking it up? Or do I just post a mini rant on the internet, then suck it up and figure out something for the gap and that's that.
Grrr

jds_1981

dhope wrote:

What's the protocol on this? Can I expect the seller to recompense anyone as they're the ones that're ******* it up? Or do I just post a mini rant on the internet, then suck it up and figure out something for the gap and that's that.
Grrr

Think you suck it up. Part way through my first house purchase, we found out that the devloper who was trying to sell the house didn't actually own it yet...

meanredspider

I think a rant is your only option - your lawyer may be able to advise you otherwise. No chance to extend your rent by a few days? Total PITA but not entirely uncommon.

Koncordski

Option B i'm afraid, sounds like the solicitors were failing to keep each other appraised of the situation. It's pretty poor, happened to me once so I agreed with my landlord a short extension. Don't forget that you can actually stay put for a few days, email the letting agent to say that you won't be vacating on the agreed day and when you expect the situation to be resolved. They can't kick you out regardless of what you agreed, it's a last resort and they'll throw a sh1tfit but it's an option.

markhewitt1978

Seems to happen all the time. Everything is completed. And then someone remembers they need some form for your double glazing or something. You employ professionals so this sort of oversight doesn't happen.

dhope

Yep, grin and bare it seems the only course. Sod's law the place I'm renting just got a new tenant sorted this morning so can't extend that anymore.
Stick things in storage and stay at a mate's. Balls. Oh well. Ta all.

bigmat

The other option is to tell your vendor that you're pulling out if they don't complete by the date you had agreed. Their mistake, why can't they move into rented accommodation? All depends on who has most to lose if everything falls through but I would imagine it may well be them as they are stuck in a chain and you are first time buyer. I was in similar situation a few years back, ended up in a holiday let for 6 weeks across summer with a 2 year old, not fun. Once the vendor sniffed that we were willing to put it up with they seemed happy to drag their feet. I'd say at the very least put down a marker e.g. we complete by X date or its all off - maybe consider a reduced purchase price to account for any expense / inconvenience you incur?

dhope

BigMat wrote:

The other option is to tell your vendor that you're pulling out if they don't complete by the date you had agreed. Their mistake, why can't they move into rented accommodation? All depends on who has most to lose if everything falls through but I would imagine it may well be them as they are stuck in a chain and you are first time buyer. I was in similar situation a few years back, ended up in a holiday let for 6 weeks across summer with a 2 year old, not fun. Once the vendor sniffed that we were willing to put it up with they seemed happy to drag their feet. I'd say at the very least put down a marker e.g. we complete by X date or its all off - maybe consider a reduced purchase price to account for any expense / inconvenience you incur?

Possibly, though everyone else has a house to live in while things are slipping. I might be the first time buyer but I'm the only one in rented accommodation too...
Not really prepared to start the buying process again tbh, so it'd be a bit of a hollow threat to pull out.

daviesee

I will never understand why you put up with that system. :?

North of Hadrian's Wall, once everything is agreed the seller is liable for all costs for delays or failure to complete.
Just as the buyer is liable for all costs to the seller if they fail to pay up on time.

Much more sensible. No?

cyclingprop

dhope wrote:

BigMat wrote:

The other option is to tell your vendor that you're pulling out if they don't complete by the date you had agreed. Their mistake, why can't they move into rented accommodation? All depends on who has most to lose if everything falls through but I would imagine it may well be them as they are stuck in a chain and you are first time buyer. I was in similar situation a few years back, ended up in a holiday let for 6 weeks across summer with a 2 year old, not fun. Once the vendor sniffed that we were willing to put it up with they seemed happy to drag their feet. I'd say at the very least put down a marker e.g. we complete by X date or its all off - maybe consider a reduced purchase price to account for any expense / inconvenience you incur?

Possibly, though everyone else has a house to live in while things are slipping. I might be the first time buyer but I'm the only one in rented accommodation too...
Not really prepared to start the buying process again tbh, so it'd be a bit of a hollow threat to pull out.

No but you could demand costs or a reduction in price due to their f up.

meanredspider

daviesee wrote:

I will never understand why you put up with that system. :?

North of Hadrian's Wall, once everything is agreed the seller is liable for all costs for delays or failure to complete.
Just as the buyer is liable for all costs to the seller if they fail to pay up on time.

Much more sensible. No?

There are some things that are better up here and some that are just plain bizarre. I remember being impressed with the system before I actually had to buy a place and then it seemed that the system really wasn't that much different to that in England in reality.

daviesee

meanredspider wrote:

There are some things that are better up here and some that are just plain bizarre. I remember being impressed with the system before I actually had to buy a place and then it seemed that the system really wasn't that much different to that in England in reality.

Please explain?
I have only bought once but the consequences either way were made very clear.
As I was living at a mate's prior to moving date, I was looking forward to a delay with a possible cash-in scenario. :oops:

walkingbootweather

This is a PITA - sorry. Am in the middle of moving myself and have taken to 'managing our solicitor' best I can. I have undertaken personal search , visited the local council offices to inspect planning and building control histories, studied reports for neighboring properties that are available from the local authority online planning systems, and checked what everybody needs to do on a regular basis. Often you can order FENSA certificates, completion certificates online or collect by hand. Sometime when there is a hold up there is an assumption that everything needs to be put back a week, when in reality all that is needed is for one piece of paper to get from A to B and this can be speeded up if everybody is so minded.

When I bought my first house, there were several interested parties and the seller agreed to sell to the first one to get to the finish line. We went from viewing to buying in 10 days (organizing mortgage, getting survey, completing searches etc.) so these things can be done quite quickly if everyone wants it to.

Good luck

meanredspider

daviesee wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

There are some things that are better up here and some that are just plain bizarre. I remember being impressed with the system before I actually had to buy a place and then it seemed that the system really wasn't that much different to that in England in reality.

Please explain?
I have only bought once but the consequences either way were made very clear.
As I was living at a mate's prior to moving date, I was looking forward to a delay with a possible cash-in scenario. :oops:

I don't remember all of the details as it's about 8 years ago but there were loads of loop-holes and other issues I discovered as I moved forward. We registered interest in one property (which already seemed too cheap at the asking price) - the valuation came back at about £20k lower, we then weren't informed of the "closing date" by the seller's solicitor until the day itself and were told by our solicitor we could bid but then pull out on some technicality and so it went on. To say it was a mess was an understatement! We didn't bid in the end which was lucky, as it turns out, as I subsequently discovered that a colleague bought it and the oil tank later leaked its contents under the house taking about half a year to clear up.

davmaggs

Whatever timescale you've been told is unlikely to be true. I'd double or treble it with regards to plan B.

If you can find out what is meant by 'enquries', it might be code for someone pulling out and agents are busy trying to keep the wheels turning.

daviesee

meanredspider wrote:

I don't remember all of the details as it's about 8 years ago but there were loads of loop-holes and other issues I discovered as I moved forward. We registered interest in one property (which already seemed too cheap at the asking price) - the valuation came back at about £20k lower, we then weren't informed of the "closing date" by the seller's solicitor until the day itself and were told by our solicitor we could bid but then pull out on some technicality and so it went on. To say it was a mess was an understatement! We didn't bid in the end which was lucky, as it turns out, as I subsequently discovered that a colleague bought it and the oil tank later leaked its contents under the house taking about half a year to clear up.

Sounds like failure on the part of the solicitors, and a lucky escape.
Mine was in 1995 and my solicitor was going for 1% of the agreed price for every day of delay. Needless to say, they completed on time. I was happy with my solicitors performance but he also charged accordingly.
I was less happy with the solicitors my parents had. Lying, robbing, picking on trusting old age pensioners....Not all solicitors are equal. :evil:

Headhuunter

IME solicitors are incredibly slow and unreliable. I've had dealings with them through 2 flat purchases and 1 sale and a couple of other transactions and only 1 has actually seemed to put much effort in... The firm I used for my flat sale were an absolute shower, I complained to the Law Society and got a partial refund of the fees...

Where are you buying the flat? Back in Greenwich?

bigmat

Headhuunter wrote:

IME solicitors are incredibly slow and unreliable. I've had dealings with them through 2 flat purchases and 1 sale and a couple of other transactions and only 1 has actually seemed to put much effort in... The firm I used for my flat sale were an absolute shower, I complained to the Law Society and got a partial refund of the fees...

Where are you buying the flat? Back in Greenwich?

Pay peanuts...

dhope

Don't think anyone is having second thoughts. The person I'm buying from is buying a leasehold and seems it's some slow replies from the property management (who don't have any particular care if things going through quickly).

HH - Still SE10 but closer to Charlton, can't afford Greenwich proper.
May see what my solicitors says regarding reductions in purchase price if there are extended delays, or suggesting me completing and the seller being the one to find temporary accommodation etc.
Not sure what's the norm (other than incompetence)

Headhuunter

BigMat wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

IME solicitors are incredibly slow and unreliable. I've had dealings with them through 2 flat purchases and 1 sale and a couple of other transactions and only 1 has actually seemed to put much effort in... The firm I used for my flat sale were an absolute shower, I complained to the Law Society and got a partial refund of the fees...

Where are you buying the flat? Back in Greenwich?

Pay peanuts...

Well they weren't the most expensive solicitors but some of them have been just abysmal....

dhope

My solicitor appears quite non-committal. Asked for opinion on the seller being the one to find temporary accommodation, or completing on my purchase and leaving them as the end of the chain, or any other options if things were to drag. Got the rather generic
'I will take instructions from the Seller’s Solicitor and get back to you when I have received a response.'

Does paying for advice preclude getting an opinion...

okgo

You haven't exchanged?

Tell them you want them to cover the cost or the deal is off.

daviesee

dhope wrote:

My solicitor appears quite non-committal. Asked for opinion on the seller being the one to find temporary accommodation, or completing on my purchase and leaving them as the end of the chain, or any other options if things were to drag. Got the rather generic
'I will take instructions from the Seller’s Solicitor and get back to you when I have received a response.'

Does paying for advice preclude getting an opinion...

Sounds like a weak solicitor to me.
He should be pushing for what you are entitled to, not asking pretty please. :evil:
Sympathies.

dhope

okgo wrote:

You haven't exchanged?

Tell them you want them to cover the cost or the deal is off.

Not exchanged yet, that was expected for this morning which is when the seller's solicitors managed to spring it on everyone. Apparently the estate agent and everyone else in the chain was unaware.
Going to see things out for now. Things in storage probably wont cost me more than the mortgage would (though obviously it's wasted money vs invested). Will give things a couple of days to find out how long the expected delays might be and likely push for any delays beyond the week being covered by the seller.

okgo wrote:

You haven't exchanged?

Tell them you want them to cover the cost or the deal is off.

The ultimatum may not work so well for me. I think I've got a pretty reasonable property and the houses in the area aren't dropping, so taking my ball and storming off would probably cost me more than persevering - at least at first.

bigmat

dhope wrote:

okgo wrote:

You haven't exchanged?

Tell them you want them to cover the cost or the deal is off.

Not exchanged yet, that was expected for this morning which is when the seller's solicitors managed to spring it on everyone. Apparently the estate agent and everyone else in the chain was unaware.
Going to see things out for now. Things in storage probably wont cost me more than the mortgage would (though obviously it's wasted money vs invested). Will give things a couple of days to find out how long the expected delays might be and likely push for any delays beyond the week being covered by the seller.

okgo wrote:

You haven't exchanged?

Tell them you want them to cover the cost or the deal is off.

The ultimatum may not work so well for me. I think I've got a pretty reasonable property and the houses in the area aren't dropping, so taking my ball and storming off would probably cost me more than persevering - at least at first.

The threat of pulling out is basically the only card you have to play. Don't be dicked around - it sounds like this could drag on a loooong time so I would start as you mean to go on and be very firm with the seller. Conveyancing solicitors (who often aren't even solicitors) need regular kicks up the a*se. I have been lucky the two times I have bought using a friend then a former colleague, even then I had to make sure the other parties' solicitors weren't taking the mick.

Basically, its like riding in central London - you need to be extremely assertive, just the right side of aggressive!

el_presidente

Agree threatening to pull out is your best option.

And frankly if they continue to dick around be prepared to do it. This could drag on for months if they are faffing around.

davmaggs

The flaw in making threats is that you have to follow them up, otherwise its hot air and you get shown up to be a blowhard when two weeks later you still haven't walked away.

I'd put pressure via the agents, they want their commission and nothing you say or hear with them has any legal standing. Conveyancing is dog bodies work so the solicitors/clerks (who really do it) probably don't pass on 70% of the messages they are given, they don't care about your problems, it is just a process.

Headhuunter

dhope wrote:

My solicitor appears quite non-committal. Asked for opinion on the seller being the one to find temporary accommodation, or completing on my purchase and leaving them as the end of the chain, or any other options if things were to drag. Got the rather generic
'I will take instructions from the Seller’s Solicitor and get back to you when I have received a response.'

Does paying for advice preclude getting an opinion...

This is my experience of solicitors, esp those who do conveyancing, they never offer opinions or advice and simply pass papers around...

Headhuunter

I wouldn't issue any threats yet, you're clearly unlikely to pull out of a deal suddenly, this far in after spending money on searches etc, the seller would simply call your bluff, I would try to get some message across re your dissatisfaction and that you've been put in a very difficult situation, then if things don't start to come together next week threaten a bit more...

Telling the other side that your mortgage deal will expire soon and that if they don't exchange/complete soon it'll be out of your hands, you'll have to back out - that's a good ploy....

Problem is that the property market in London is white, burning hot at the moment, there are literally 50 odd buyers for every property, they know that if you drop out they'll find another buyer quickly enough, although of course it'll put their purchase timing out of whack

dhope

Headhuunter wrote:

I wouldn't issue any threats yet, you're clearly unlikely to pull out of a deal suddenly, this far in after spending money on searches etc, the seller would simply call your bluff, I would try to get some message across re your dissatisfaction and that you've been put in a very difficult situation, then if things don't start to come together next week threaten a bit more...

Telling the other side that your mortgage deal will expire soon and that if they don't exchange/complete soon it'll be out of your hands, you'll have to back out - that's a good ploy....

Yep, will give them a a couple of days to get an initial idea of when they think the replies should be back, since it's day 1 of everyone actually knowing that things are shite.

Headhuunter wrote:

Problem is that the property market in London is white, burning hot at the moment, there are literally 50 odd buyers for every property, they know that if you drop out they'll find another buyer quickly enough, although of course it'll put their purchase timing out of whack

It's not that fabulous. Properties are still going for under the asking, it's just that sellers seem to be getting a bit more optimistic with the asking prices recently. Properties that were up for 330 are now on for 380, friends looking around the 600k mark are finding ones that have been relisted at 100k more than they were in April. This only in SE London, and not the plush bits

Headhuunter

dhope wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I wouldn't issue any threats yet, you're clearly unlikely to pull out of a deal suddenly, this far in after spending money on searches etc, the seller would simply call your bluff, I would try to get some message across re your dissatisfaction and that you've been put in a very difficult situation, then if things don't start to come together next week threaten a bit more...

Telling the other side that your mortgage deal will expire soon and that if they don't exchange/complete soon it'll be out of your hands, you'll have to back out - that's a good ploy....

Yep, will give them a a couple of days to get an initial idea of when they think the replies should be back, since it's day 1 of everyone actually knowing that things are shite.

Headhuunter wrote:

Problem is that the property market in London is white, burning hot at the moment, there are literally 50 odd buyers for every property, they know that if you drop out they'll find another buyer quickly enough, although of course it'll put their purchase timing out of whack

It's not that fabulous. Properties are still going for under the asking, it's just that sellers seem to be getting a bit more optimistic with the asking prices recently. Properties that were up for 330 are now on for 380, friends looking around the 600k mark are finding ones that have been relisted at 100k more than they were in April. This only in SE London, and not the plush bits

Really? The impression I've had is that things have been going for more than asking price all over London, friendsof mine have given me that impression anyway....certainly in brockley where I live, asking prices seem to have jumped in the last 6 months and things seem to sell quickly....