Descending, poor Thibaut.

No_Ta_Doctor
No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,549
edited August 2013 in Pro race
Lost huge amounts of time on the descents, has admitted to being petrified by them, isn't sure he should even be at the tour :-(

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-a ... n-the-tour
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Comments

  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    Fair play to him for having the guts to tell the truth. Only way to overcome is to slowly build up the speed and realise it is possible to do it without bad stuff happening. During the tour is probably not the best time to do it though. Possible needs a good descending team mate in front of him taking it easy and showing him how it's done. Learn how to do it first and then build up the speed.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Andy should read this instead of blaming everyone else.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    It's clearly affecting him a whole lot. The yips are a horrible thing. Out of nowhere I suddenly developed a fear of heights, and now I'm sweating just typing that sentence - though the 30° in this room might be doing that.

    Someone should tell him that keeping up with Cav going down a mountain isn't an easy thing to do.
  • Lightning
    Lightning Posts: 360
    Turfle wrote:
    Someone should tell him that keeping up with Cav going down a mountain isn't an easy thing to do.
    This. Seemed a bit out of context when I read it.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Nope. Cav is a brilliant descender - like most of the 'grupetto-guys' are.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,325
    Interesting interview - reminds me of Marcus Trescothick's interviews in some ways. Hope he finds someone to either help him recover his descending mojo, or to at least find a way of balancing the internal and eternal pressure he must be feeling.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    But third at the Tour of Suisse ? Marc Madiot : "Thibaut a beaucoup gambergé, il n’a pas dû fermer l’œil de la nuit…"

    Gamberge = contemplation?? Can't sleep at night (close eyes)
  • LeicesterLad
    LeicesterLad Posts: 3,908
    Really feel for Thibaut here - I hope it doesn't get in the way of his career in the long term. One of, if not my favourite rider. Classy on the bike and exciting to watch too.
    http://www.twitter.com/InTheGC http://www.InTheGC.com http://www.facebook.com/intheGC
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Lost huge amounts of time on the descents, has admitted to being petrified by them, isn't sure he should even be at the tour :-(
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-a ... n-the-tour
    The Cycling News link states Pinot’s poor descending “first became apparent on the descent of the Pailhères during Saturday's first stage in the Pyrenees”. This is nonsense, as the article also more or less later makes clear when saying “Pinot's difficulties go back to a crash he suffered when he was younger, which has resulted in him being extremely tentative on descents”.

    Some French and International press considered him a good bet for the podium but they were obviously either extremely optimistic or badly informed. Here’s posts from Blazing Saddles and me about him on stage 7 of the Tour of Suisse thread from 4 weeks ago:
    knedlicky wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Pinot has been having descending lessons off Wiggins.
    In his early days, Pinot was known to cross the last col first (like today) and then never make it to the finish, not far down the other side, as first (like today).

    One wonders whether he would have won at last year's Tour stage at Porrentruy had he had anyone close to him when he went over the col there shortly before the finish.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    That's a real shame. He looked like a fantastic prospect last year. Must be tough being cycling's Andy Murray (of a few years ago, that is).
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    He's still really young isn't he? If it's purely a mental thing you would hope his team would have time to get him sorted out even if takes a while and even if he never becomes a superb descender, just an average one rather than a terrible one. He's certainly not making it easy for himself by trying to keep up with everyone else in an event like the Tour where the speeds are always going to be towards the "slightly insane" end of the spectrum. Spending some time following teammates down a mountain on training rides might be the best thing for him.
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    EEEEE thats a toughie. Some people never get the hang of them.
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Maybe he should concentrate on the Ventoux stage - there are quite a few lumps and bumps along the way but hopefully nothing too much to trouble him.

    Obviously at a vastly different level but my descending has got terrible recently. Just keep on imagining my front wheel washing out when going round a corner. :(
  • smithy21
    smithy21 Posts: 2,204
    I love these threads. Words of advice on descending technique from an Internet forum. He's a pro for gods sake. Even in his worst nightmares he would get down a descent faster than anyone on here. Same nonsense spouted when Wiggo had his Giro shocker.
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    smithy21 wrote:
    I love these threads. Words of advice on descending technique from an Internet forum. He's a pro for gods sake. Even in his worst nightmares he would get down a descent faster than anyone on here. Same nonsense spouted when Wiggo had his Giro shocker.

    I think you have missed the point.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    He was ashamed he couldn't keep up with Cavendish? Mark is a good descender, no shame there TBH.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    smithy21 wrote:
    I love these threads. Words of advice on descending technique from an Internet forum. He's a pro for gods sake. Even in his worst nightmares he would get down a descent faster than anyone on here. Same nonsense spouted when Wiggo had his Giro shocker.

    You have no idea how fast any of us could descend, so wind it in. The fact he's a Pro is irrelevant; gravity and nerve are all that's required.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    He was ashamed he couldn't keep up with Cavendish? Mark is a good descender, no shame there TBH.
    I think he's thoughts may have been that he was back there with him in the first place and things were getting worse.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,314
    OnYourRight wrote:
    You have to possess no imagination at all to go down a mountainside at anywhere near 100 km/h, even on closed roads. Pinot’s probably just too smart to be good at descending. I reckon a rider’s IQ is inversely proportional to his or her top speed on a descent.

    Why should it be that a lone rider gets the yips at 45mph on an Alpine descent but not at 43mph in a tightly packed bunch hammering along on the flat?

    Descending's got nothing to with IQ (I'd argue that IQ hasn't got much to do with intelligence necessarily, either) - but lots to do with still being to operate at an optimal level despite having an awareness of potential hazards.
    It could be argued that the ability to "feel the fear but do it anyway" is a higher form of intelligence.
    When people who know him talk about Cavendish "not being stupid"; I think this is another way of them saying he's not academically particularly bright, but that he exudes a higher intelligence when it comes to him doing what he does.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    When people who know him talk about Cavendish "not being stupid"; I think this is another way of them saying he's not academically particularly bright, but that he exudes a higher intelligence when it comes to him doing what he does.

    I think this is true. I've listened to Mark speak a lot over the last 4 years and he is obviously highly intelligent.
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    I think this is drifting OT When a fast bowler loses his run up after showing great promise we don't talk of 'intelligence', just what has altered in their physical or mental state. Pinot has stated that his problems are phobic in nature which has obviously been exacerbated by the anxiety of expectation. His comments about Cavendish merely alluded to the fact that as a climber he should be descending faster than the laughing group ie with urgency Just as Cavendish might lose his nerve in the last 2km and state 'I should be getting past Pinot'
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    OnYourRight wrote:
    You have to possess no imagination at all to go down a mountainside at anywhere near 100 km/h, even on closed roads. Pinot’s probably just too smart to be good at descending. I reckon a rider’s IQ is inversely proportional to his or her top speed on a descent.

    No. It's about confidence and mental condition, it has very little basis in rational thought.

    It's why highly intelligent people are still afraid of flying, or spiders, or whatever.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • smithy21
    smithy21 Posts: 2,204
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    smithy21 wrote:
    I love these threads. Words of advice on descending technique from an Internet forum. He's a pro for gods sake. Even in his worst nightmares he would get down a descent faster than anyone on here. Same nonsense spouted when Wiggo had his Giro shocker.

    You have no idea how fast any of us could descend, so wind it in. The fact he's a Pro is irrelevant; gravity and nerve are all that's required.

    Oh of course. You are completely right. I apologise unreservedly. :roll:
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    smithy21 wrote:
    Oh of course. You are completely right. I apologise unreservedly. :roll:

    Give over will you, there's no need to pull out handbags. I'm sure we all understood the point you were trying to make, but you can't just write off the views of the entire forum as being irrelevant because we sit on our backsides all day :wink:
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    OnYourRight wrote:
    . I practically fixate on mechanical failure at anything over 70 km/h.

    You wouldn't have enjoyed the time my braking surface unravelled like spaghetti at 80kmh + going down Buttertubs. Incredibly I missed all dry stone walling and got through the only open gate for miles around with a nearly rimless front wheel :shock:
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Interesting comments by him and I have never heard a pro cyclist say something similar. I hope he can conquer it with help as he appears to be a good guy with a lot of talent.

    I wonder why this wasn`t a problem last year though? Although maybe it was but he rode through it.

    I find it also interesting that the descents this weekend were fairly wide and open rather than sinuous. So sounds much more like a pure speed scare thing rather than a fear of crashing when going round tight corners at speed or something. Maybe its both though.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I wonder why this wasn`t a problem last year though? Although maybe it was but he rode through it.
    More expectation this year perhaps after his stage win last year? I seem to remember him being dropped on a descent in the Tour de Suisse as well earlier this year so it's not just the TdF he's had problems in.
  • squired
    squired Posts: 1,153
    I know of a number of people who had accidents on the bike, particularly involving cars, and struggled to get over the lingering fears from that point forward, whether it be going downhill, or everytime they pass a side road. For the majority of bike riders, who don't participate in races, that is the closest on-bike comparable they will probably experience.

    It is hard not to feel sorry for the guy. Hopefully journalists will leave him alone, but one can imagine cameramen circling on every descent for the rest of the race hoping to catch him falling or just struggling. The good thing is that he is young and no doubt has access to the best professionals (whether that be psychologists, hypnotherapists, or something else). One thing is certain though, you wouldn't want him anywhere near the Giro any time soon, particularly if the weather is poor.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    You lot are more sympathetic than I am.

    He should mtfu. Otherwise it's the wrong job for him.

    He doesn't need to be the next Savodelli but it's really not difficult to follow people.

    If they can go around that fast so can you.
    _
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,314
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    You lot are more sympathetic than I am.

    He should mtfu. Otherwise it's the wrong job for him.

    He doesn't need to be the next Savodelli but it's really not difficult to follow people.

    If they can go around that fast so can you.

    This is essentially what any cyclist's head-doctor/DS/self-help author/coach would love to say, but have to take the more nurturing long way around.

    Yours is same the tack I imagine Bernard Hinault taking.

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