Are there any advantages to aluminum over carbon fibre?

drlodge

junglist_matty wrote:

Aluminium = harsh & Carbon = soft

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!

1. My aluminium bike is really harsh; I feel every single bump on the road and is really uncomfortable.
2. My carbon bike is really soft; it soaks up every single bump on the road and is really comfortable.

What a load of tosh.

Have any of you monkey's blabbering this tosh ever ridden a decent alu bike??????? If not, shut up, you don't have a clue.

I've never ridden a carbon or an aluminium framed bike, only steel, and for that reason I'm out of this thread :P :shock:

junglist_matty

There aren't many alu frames out there these days, even "budget" £1000 bikes are mostly carbon, but I'd rather have a decent alu frame.
Cannondale CAAD frames are quality, as are Canyon Ultimate AL's, as are the Kinesis (UK designed) frames, some Ribbles. Even the well made aluminium frames from the likes of Giant & Trek are decent frames.

Go ride one, they're not "harsh", this stupidity that floats around about alu being harsh and carbon being soft is absolute rubbish....on the road, if you hit a bump it's going to feel 99% the same on any rigid bike. Blindfolded, half of these idiots spouting this tosh couldn't tell the difference between Steel, Alu, Carbon or even Ti bikes if ridden blindfolded.... it's not about the material, it's about so much more, workmanship & geometry being top of the list.

apreading

Having test ridden quite a few alu framed bikes before buying my Boardman, I came to the opinion that alu frames giving a softer ride also tended to give a less engaging ride that feels a bit dead. The more lively the ride, the harsher it tended to be.

Adding a carbon fork allowed for a more lively ride which was less harsh because road vibrations were damped, although you can still feel the big hits... I imagine that a carbon frame may do the same - i.e. be the best of both worlds rather than one or the other?

Of course this may not be true of the bikes that I didnt test ride...

junglist_matty

drlodge wrote:

I've never ridden a carbon or an aluminium framed bike, only steel, and for that reason I'm out of this thread :P :shock:

Winning.... Steel is really soft and supple (as "they" say), you don't notice any road bumps on steel LOL!

drlodge

junglist_matty wrote:

drlodge wrote:

I've never ridden a carbon or an aluminium framed bike, only steel, and for that reason I'm out of this thread :P :shock:

Winning.... Steel is really soft and supple (as "they" say), you don't notice any road bumps on steel LOL!

Slight flaw in that argument :shock: the old Condor 531 Professional has a steel fork, and I feel more vibration in that than with the Rourke 953 which has a Ritchey WCS carbon fork. But then old steel forks are more like scaffolding poles...the Rourke is as smooth as a Bentley, perfect for fast long distance rides.

junglist_matty

drlodge wrote:

Slight flaw in that argument :shock: the old Condor 531 Professional has a steel fork, and I feel more vibration in that than with the Rourke 953 which has a Ritchey WCS carbon fork. But then old steel forks are more like scaffolding poles...the Rourke is as smooth as a Bentley, perfect for fast long distance rides.

But your steel bike is a thing of absolute beauty!

drlodge

junglist_matty wrote:

drlodge wrote:

Slight flaw in that argument :shock: the old Condor 531 Professional has a steel fork, and I feel more vibration in that than with the Rourke 953 which has a Ritchey WCS carbon fork. But then old steel forks are more like scaffolding poles...the Rourke is as smooth as a Bentley, perfect for fast long distance rides.

But your steel bike is a thing of absolute beauty!

On that my friend, we are agreed. 8)

Oh which one are you referring to lol

The Condor is now my commuting bike, 35 miles Guildford to London City today, and looking forward to the return journey.

junglist_matty

drlodge wrote:

Oh which one are you referring to lol

hmmmmm... I wander; the handbuilt one of course, I'm not jelous BTW, not at all! :twisted:

keef66

junglist_matty wrote:

There aren't many alu frames out there these days, even "budget" £1000 bikes are mostly carbon, but I'd rather have a decent alu frame.
Cannondale CAAD frames are quality, as are Canyon Ultimate AL's, as are the Kinesis (UK designed) frames, some Ribbles. Even the well made aluminium frames from the likes of Giant & Trek are decent frames.

Go ride one, they're not "harsh", this stupidity that floats around about alu being harsh and carbon being soft is absolute rubbish....on the road, if you hit a bump it's going to feel 99% the same on any rigid bike. Blindfolded, half of these idiots spouting this tosh couldn't tell the difference between Steel, Alu, Carbon or even Ti bikes if ridden blindfolded.... it's not about the material, it's about so much more, workmanship & geometry being top of the list.

I've just swapped all the kit off my Kinesis Racelight Tk on to a Scott CR1-SL. I had thought I'd got one of the better alloy frames in the Tk, but I concede it's not in the same price bracket as the CR1. I was prepared for it to be just a bit lighter, but after a couple of test rides I find the new carbon frame to be conspicuously more comfortable over rougher road surfaces. As is the steel 80's Peugeot I helped my son restore. (25 mm tyres in each case)

slowandsteady

I cant add much to this thread other than saying my old ali caad9 was noticeably more forgiving and less harsh than my new carbon wilier.

lighter probably too

denniskwok

junglist_matty wrote:

Aluminium = harsh & Carbon = soft

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!

1. My aluminium bike is really harsh; I feel every single bump on the road and is really uncomfortable.
2. My carbon bike is really soft; it soaks up every single bump on the road and is really comfortable.

What a load of tosh.

Have any of you monkey's blabbering this tosh ever ridden a decent alu bike??????? If not, shut up, you don't have a clue.

I think you need to calm down a bit.

junglist_matty

denniskwok wrote:

I think you need to calm down a bit.

I am calm, just too many idiots claiming the untruth, before long with this attitude all that'll be available is carbon which is a sad state of affairs..... Consider who spouts most of this rubbish, it's new cyclists (i.e. people that have been doing "serious" riding for the last couple of years), you tell them one thing, and then that's it, it's constantly twisted and regurgitated without thinking!

Half them probably haven't even rode a harsh bike, and those carbons that so called take that much claimed road buzz out of a ride; must be a hell of a flexible frame!

drlodge

Steel bikes are generally forgiving of road vibration, but if made out of scaffold poles wouldn't be. Just goes to show its less about the material and more about the design. Aluminium frames have probably got a reputation for being harsh as the older ones are made out of thicker walled tubing.

junglist_matty

drlodge wrote:

Steel bikes are generally forgiving of road vibration, but if made out of scaffold poles wouldn't be. Just goes to show its less about the material and more about the design. Aluminium frames have probably got a reputation for being harsh as the older ones are made out of thicker walled tubing.

Indeed, I would love a really good lightweight steel frame; it's a shame the bank balance doesn't agree!

denniskwok

junglist_matty wrote:

denniskwok wrote:

I think you need to calm down a bit.

I am calm, just too many idiots claiming the untruth, before long with this attitude all that'll be available is carbon which is a sad state of affairs..... Consider who spouts most of this rubbish, it's new cyclists (i.e. people that have been doing "serious" riding for the last couple of years), you tell them one thing, and then that's it, it's constantly twisted and regurgitated without thinking!

Half them probably haven't even rode a harsh bike, and those carbons that so called take that much claimed road buzz out of a ride; must be a hell of a flexible frame!

You say you're calm but there you go again, calling people idiots, telling them to shut up and what not. How do you know that it's only reletively new cyclists that say that carbon tends to ride more compliantly than alu? The simple answer is, you don't. Just because other peoples experiences don't agree with yours, doesn't give you the right to shove yours down their throat or insult them. It's not a conspiracy as to why people say that carbon bikes tend to ride more comforatably than alu, as in most peoples experience, they do.

My 2010 alu bike and 2013 carbon bike were at the same price point and to me, the carbon bike rides much more comfortably, despite it being stiffer under power. The difference is not subtle. Admittedly, I've not ridden a CAAD 10 or Ultimate AL, but it doesn't mean that my experience isn't valid, or that I'm an idiot, or stupid. Saying a frame which has a compliant ride must be like a wet noodle under power is a bit misguided in my opinion. The frequencies of the vibrations are totally different and I'm sure you're aware that carbon fibre composites can be made to have greater viscoelasticity in certain directions than others, reletively independent of it's cross sectional aspect when compared to metals.

I agree that the design of the bike is by far the most important factor in determining how it rides and that alu frames can be made to give a compliant ride. However, carbon fibre makes it possible to have a frame which is more torsionally stiff/strong, give a comfortable ride, be aerodynamically shaped and still come well under a kilo in weight. All of these factors lead to me chosing carbon as my frame material of choice.

Just my two pence worth.

dolan_driver

The pursuit of comfort on the road is a long and expensive one. I reckon six things contribute to comfort in the saddle.

Tyre size.
Type of wheel.
Frame material (its design and construction).
Seat post.
Saddle.
Shorts.

25mm tyres win out over 23mm tyres for comfort.
Stiff wheels transmit the road surface to your saddle.
A stiff frame will also be harsh.
A carbon seat post is good for comfort. One designed to flex could be the answer to your prayers.
A saddle that has the best shape for your body is often hard to find.
Good ,well-padded shorts will go a long way towards helping things but are only part of the solution.

If you want a comfortable bike, it might be best to put it together yourself, hand-picking the components you think will build up into a comfortable bike. This is what I did here and the in-saddle comfort has been like night-and-day when compared to an aluminium bike I rode six months ago.

viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12929239&p=18404462#p18404462

I actually put on the Selle Italia X2 saddle because it was crap and I wanted to see just how good the seat post really was. That saddle is still on the bike and two-hour spins are fine in my least padded shorts. I can't recommend the Syntace P6 Hi-Flex seat post enough. It really does make a difference and a significant one at that. It is very expensive and difficult to find but if you really want to smooth out your bike, this is the first item to change on your bike.

I can't say that every aluminium bike gives a harsh ride but the Ambrosio Guido is a killer on the butt!

The bikes being supplied to pro teams seem to be going back to 27.2mm seat posts for comfort reasons as well as being generally designed to be stiff in the bottom bracket area while being more compliant in the seat tube. Hopefully these design features will filter down to the lower spec bikes that most of us can afford at the mid- to lower end of the carbon market.

DD.

essjaydee

I've got 2 aloominum bikes; Boardman and Giant Defy1.
The Defy is definatley nicer to ride on our british tarmac, but this is probably more to do with difference in geometry of the frames. The Defy has a carbon seat post.

I also have a Cannondale Supersix (carbon frame). This 'feels' a lot smoother to ride, and is a definate notch above the Boardman & Defy. It 'feels' quicker and livelier (if that makes sense!) also. For longer rides it is my number one choice.

To the OP on their original question; Get a bike fit done - well worth the money IMO and sorted several issues I was having, plus you can transfer the measurements to other bikes

P.S. Carbon melts in the rain