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Campagnolo Ergo level Upgrade

CalpolCalpol Posts: 1,039
edited August 2013 in Road buying advice
I am after a bit of your expert opinion please.
Currently I am running 10 speed Veloce on my Wilier Izoard. Its fine. I really like Campagnolo however I would like to improve the bike where possible and then possibly donate parts down to a project for a winter hack. My question relates to the shifters.

The veloce alloy shifters do the job well. No real issues with function but they do feel a little flimsy. The left hand one in particular seems to have a bit of a vibrational buzz/rattle so I would like to swap them out. My choices are

1. 2nd hand Record from Ebay @ c£120
2. New Centaur Carbon @ c£120
3. New Chorus 10 speed at c£170

I suppose I am looking for good value and something that feels a little more robust yet tactile. Would buying 2nd hand record be a bit of a risk vs new Chorus or centaur? Eventually I would upgrade the mechs too.

Any thoughts from those of you with experience of any of the above? thanks

Posts

  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,431
    Modern Veloce and Centaur use the Powershift system which many (myself included) claim is a cheaper to make downgrade on the Ultrashift system with its all-metal internals and ability to shift several sprockets at a time. Those Ultrashift levers can be rebuilt relatively cheaply by people like Mercian and I much prefer their more positive shifting feel than Powershift. Ultrashift now can only be found on Super Record, Record and Chorus. It used to feature throughout the range. I reckon it's significantly better than Powershift.

    I have old Veloce Ultrashift levers on my tourer. They are at least 10 years old and are still as good as new. The internals are identical to the top of the range Record, except that Record has bearings rather than bushes so the Record shift is slightly lighter.

    I have 10-speed Record levers on my road bike and they are brilliant. I've had 10-speed Chorus on my previous road bike and they were brilliant. I've had Centaur Carbon previously but sold them after six months because the shifting was nowhere near as good as Chorus/Record Ultrashift.

    So my advice would be to avoid the Centaur Carbon as they are Powershift and will be no improvement over your Veloce.

    Chorus is now 11-speed so the new Chorus 10-speed will be old stock. But you would get top quality Ultrashift. I assume you'd get cables as well, which is worth it. I'd personally go for that over secondhand Record. I assume you'd have to buy a cableset to go with the Record so that would be added cost.
  • CalpolCalpol Posts: 1,039
    Many thanks for that comprehensive reply Mercia Man. Yes Chorus would come with cables so as you say that is an additional factor.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Record 10 speed and Chorus 10 speed use the Q/S system on the left hand shifter so for best performance require a Q/S front mech NOS stock of these are available but only in band on type. None Q/S front mechs will work though but not as well.

    Record 10 speed and chorus 10 speed shifters are still in production! not old stock at all. Also these shifters come with cables.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,431

    Record 10 speed and chorus 10 speed shifters are still in production! not old stock at all. Also these shifters come with cables.

    That's good to know, cycleclinic. I did have trouble some years ago sourcing a 10-speed Chorus cassette (13-29), although Record were available at very high prices. When Campag switched to 11-speed I wanted to future-proof my bike with a spare cassette. Luckily I can still buy Veloce and Centaur 9 and 10-speed cassettes for my touring and road bikes. I wonder how long Campag will continue to produce spares for older groupsets.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    As lomg as there is sufficient demand I suppose. I should add Q/S was introduced in 2008 so 2000-2006 record shifters were non q/s.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,132
    Record / Chorus 10-speed shifters will presumably be the previous generation in terms of hood shape? FWIW I find the the latest hood shape far more comfortable. I have the first generation carbon Centaur with the new hood shape, when they were still Ultrashift - probably the ideal 10-speed levers for me. On my other bike I switched from Mirage 9-speed ultrashift to 10-speed powershift. To be honest, I haven't missed the multiple up-shift as much as I thought I would, but then that bike mainly gets used for commuting now.
  • edindevonedindevon Posts: 325
    Just to point out that as posted on the bargains thread of commuting chat:

    Campagnolo Centaur 10-Speed Triple Ergopower Levers, Red/Black - £72.79 delivered at Halfords.

    http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_996618_langId_-1_categoryId_273959
  • barrie hbarrie h Posts: 102
    I went for new Record 10s QS from Ribble, superb , even better when I put a Record cassette on
    no regrets at all, just a bit pricey

    Barrie
  • holiverholiver Posts: 729
    I'd like to jump on this thread if possible. I have acquired some pre QS (2004-06?) Chorus 10 speed shifters along with 2013 Centaur front and rear mechs for a build. I assumed as that because it was all Campag 10 speed everything would work together. Might someone be able to confirm whether this should be so?

    Thanks!
  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,431
    holiver wrote:
    I'd like to jump on this thread if possible. I have acquired some pre QS (2004-06?) Chorus 10 speed shifters along with 2013 Centaur front and rear mechs for a build. I assumed as that because it was all Campag 10 speed everything would work together. Might someone be able to confirm whether this should be so?

    Thanks!
    I think it should but it all depends on whether Campag have changed the cable pull in the latest models. Perhaps some trade expert like cycleclinic will know. I run pre QS Veloce 9 speed shifters with more recent Centaur 10 triple front mech and a Champ 9 speed long cage rear mech on my tourer and it works fine. Have even run it with a Shimano 105 triple front mech but not so well as cable pull is different. Those older Campag shifters will run double or triple systems with the ratcheting left lever.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,708
    holiver wrote:
    I'd like to jump on this thread if possible. I have acquired some pre QS (2004-06?) Chorus 10 speed shifters along with 2013 Centaur front and rear mechs for a build. I assumed as that because it was all Campag 10 speed everything would work together. Might someone be able to confirm whether this should be so?

    Thanks!

    There is an alleged incompatibility, but I have tried to mix and match older shifters/newer derailleurs and the opposite and I have not noticed any significant difference in behaviour
  • holiverholiver Posts: 729
    OK cool. Hopefully it will be alright in that case. I'll ask the shop doing the build and will hopefully find it all fits together and works perfectly!
  • holiverholiver Posts: 729
    I can confirm everything works very sweetly together. No problems matching older shifters and 2013 mechs/derailleurs here!
  • pilot_petepilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    I have the first generation carbon Centaur with the new hood shape, when they were still Ultrashift - probably the ideal 10-speed levers for me.

    Be warned, there was a manufacturing design problem with those early levers. I had some (still have them in fact) and the rear shifting went a bit haywire. No matter how well I adjusted them the shifting was all over the place.

    Much research later revealed the problem is with the 'spool' that the cable runs around in the shifter. If you look at it closely with the lever off the bars you can see witness marks on the internal shifter body where the spool has not held the cable nipple securely and allowed it to pop slightly out and foul against the shifter body. This causes the shifting to become very imprecise. Campag came up with a fix by re-designing the spool. Original spools were white in colour, the fix (available as a kit from dealers) are black. Mine have worked well since the fix.

    I understand the shifters have a 3 year warranty and mine were fixed under that, but it did take weeks as I had bought the bike from Evans and had to go through them, who use a Campag service centre elsewhere for warranty claims/ fixes. I took copious pictures and documents from Campag service centres online files to convince Evans that it was a manufacturing defect, which of course they deny as a first line of defence...

    I did post all the details a year of two back, so a search for my nick will reveal all...

    PP
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,132
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    I have the first generation carbon Centaur with the new hood shape, when they were still Ultrashift - probably the ideal 10-speed levers for me.

    Be warned, there was a manufacturing design problem with those early levers. I had some (still have them in fact) and the rear shifting went a bit haywire. No matter how well I adjusted them the shifting was all over the place.

    Much research later revealed the problem is with the 'spool' that the cable runs around in the shifter. If you look at it closely with the lever off the bars you can see witness marks on the internal shifter body where the spool has not held the cable nipple securely and allowed it to pop slightly out and foul against the shifter body. This causes the shifting to become very imprecise. Campag came up with a fix by re-designing the spool. Original spools were white in colour, the fix (available as a kit from dealers) are black. Mine have worked well since the fix.

    I understand the shifters have a 3 year warranty and mine were fixed under that, but it did take weeks as I had bought the bike from Evans and had to go through them, who use a Campag service centre elsewhere for warranty claims/ fixes. I took copious pictures and documents from Campag service centres online files to convince Evans that it was a manufacturing defect, which of course they deny as a first line of defence...

    I did post all the details a year of two back, so a search for my nick will reveal all...

    PP

    Cheers Pete. I have had mine over 3 years and touch wood they have been OK. I did managed to destroy the right hand shifter when I was fitting it, which turned out to be some kind of design flaw (I clicked it one too many times when setting up the gears and it never worked again!) but the shop I bought them from gave me a replacement and set the bike up for me - has worked well ever since. I did have an issue with my rear-indexing after a dodgy LBS had a go at a service and there was a suggestion of an incompatibility with my Centaur rear-mech, but Condor managed to get it right.
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