Downhill advice?

jjsh

I've started incorpirating hills into my circuits now, and hit just shy of 40mph down one yesteday. I know that's nowt, and many of you break the sound barrier downhill while casually eating a banana, but I was bricking it a bit, and bottled it in the end and braked. What I found a bit disconcerting was the fact the the 'undulations' in the road ~ the sort of things that are way to smooth and gradual to be desribed as pot holes, but after a rainstorm would become puddles (sorry, can't think of a better way to describe them) had my bike skipping about a fair bit at that speed. I found it helped a bit if I lifted out of the saddle slightly, and didn't hang on to the bars too tightly. Is that right, or toatally wrong? Or do I just need to man up a bit?

Wirral_paul

you need to MTFU!! hehehe

Actually - descending on a stable bike is as much about relaxing and getting the weight distribution right as anything else. The more you can relax, the more then bike will just find its own stable line (and the more comfortable and relaxed you will feel). Tense up and it all goes pear-shaped - i've even seen wheel wobble induced by someone gripping the bars for dear life.

Simple answer - ride at the speed you are comfortable at and can relax at. You will naturally get faster in time so dont push yourself - its just not worth the high speed crash that will happen by riding faster than your ability.

Finlaz22

You will get faster and more comfortable until you crash

Initialised

I do an 8-15 mile ride most lunch times up and then down a 666ft hill

Go to a mountain bike park (or actual mountain) where they run off road descent classes (I did Ride Cairngorm last summer, hit 51.1mph at one point) or watch some DH MTB instructional videos. Assuming the DH/Attack position on a road bike is a bit different as your seat tends to stay up, your arms are the front suspension and you tend to keep your legs going as even on a compact 50Tx11T you wont spin out until you get past 50mph. I find on the drops, arms relaxed, elbows out to the side at 30-60 degrees for the rough bits or tucked in up front by the breaks. Sometimes as the speed builds I slip off the back of the seat, head down, chin almost on the stem belly/abs on the seat to reduce my drag coefficient, some people prefer to got bum in front of the seat. Both work for me but hanging off the back can make the front end twitchy so I save that for the long, straight descents.

Fatter tyres 25mm or higher at sub 100 psi can help as they soak up the bumps a lot, but knowing and the road and picking your line having your arms ready helps more.

Schoie81

Definitely true about it becoming more natural over time. I'm new to road bikes and the first time I went out on mine I'd stop pedalling and had the brakes on for anything other than a long straight 3% descent. Steeper than that and my knuckles were white gripping the bars and breaks so hard!! A month and 150miles later and this morning I averaged 35mph on a 1mile long descent, never touched the brakes once (and it was a road i've never cycled on before). You just start to feel more comfortable with the bike, how it handles and get to know your and its limits.

Does make you see quite how bad our road surfaces are in the UK though!!

morstar

JJSH wrote:

had my bike skipping about a fair bit at that speed. I found it helped a bit if I lifted out of the saddle slightly, and didn't hang on to the bars too tightly. Is that right, or toatally wrong?

Spot on! You're letting the bike settle underneath you and also allowing your body to absorb the vibrations / undulations. Sounds like you have potential to become a very good descender with time.

jjsh

Thanks for all the replies, advice and encouragement. I'm planning a new (to me) 50 miler tomorrow, that I'll take at a fairly easy pace while I sus out road conditions, traffic, etc, so it will give me time to concentrate on my technique rather than going hell for leather.

Dezcore

Yea it can be scary, prior to Wednesday had managed to hit 29 mph on the way back from work. However on holiday with the wife we went to Arran, and between Lochranza and Brodick there's a bit of a climb, easier coming from Lochranza. When heading down was often hitting the breaks when hitting about 37/38 mph as I was a wee bit worried about traffic however once I could see the bottom of the hill was traffic free just let it loose, hot 48mph before I started hitting the brakes again. Never been that fast before on a bike by a long way but it damn well made the climb up worth it

I took a similar position just out of the saddle and it made a big difference.

Peddle Up!

Trying to improve my descending skills is, as a quick search of my previous posts will show, a bit of an obsession of mine. Not to reach supersonic speeds you understand, but to be less of an “old granny” on the downhills.

With practice, I’ve seen my speed on a not too steep stretch of decent road increase little-by-little every time, but it’s when the road gets choppy that things don’t work out. If the hill is choppy and steep, then :shock: :shock: :shock:

Like the OP I’ve found that unloading from the saddle and loosing grip on the bars helps significantly, and when I’ve been brave enough to get in the drops, that helps too. But on choppy road as the speed builds the bike feels more and more like a “bucking bronco” under me and if I tighten my grip to engage the brakes it gets much worse, presumably as I reconnect with the mass of the bike. That leaves me with a dilemma – I can either let the bike ride the road surface as it will, getting faster and faster, but I feel less and less in control and know it could end badly. So, I bail out early and start feathering the brakes, cursing myself for doing it.

What’s to be done? Are there road bike-based courses like the MTB events described? Would a MTB session help? To be honest I’d rather face the risk of an off in the woods and connecting with grass, soil and maybe a couple of rocks than find myself under an eight wheeler. :?

Any advice most welcome. Thanks.

Mikey41

If the bike is bouncing around, then your tyre pressures may be too high unless the surface is really poor. Try dropping the pressure slightly and see how that goes. I run 90psi front and 105psi rear (I'm 70kg), but the specific tyre can also make a big difference. For example Conti GP4000S ride significantly better than my stock Giant tyres did and absorb bumps better.

If you are taking corners, I see a surprising number of riders use the wrong technique. Whether you are on the hoods or drops, get the outside pedal down and load your weight on it. Then move your inside knee outward, the bike will lean and start to turn.

Keep weight on the inside handlebar to stop it turning into the bend. Sounds silly, but hod your bike upright by the saddle and lean it to one side. Which way does the front wheel turn? If you turn the bars into the bend, the bike will want to stand up again.

I did the Arran descent mentioned above on saturday on a group ride. The surface is new, and super-smooth and since there aren't any really tight corners (or hedges) you can see if the road is clear all the way down. Once on the steep bit, stop pedalling and get tucked in for the ride (you'll go faster). Read the road at least 3 corners ahead and plan a line of least resistance. Brakes weren't needed for a few miles Top speed was 49.7mph.

It is rather focussing though. The smooth surface meant it was much lower risk, but you are very aware that if you get it wrong at that kind of speed, it's going to hurt... a lot. Sadly one of the group did get it wrong and was lucky to get away with only cuts, bruises and a bike that could be a write-off.

Bottom line: Don't go faster than you are comfortable with. There were a few areas on the ride where the surface was really terrible and nobody even tried to take them fast.

lc1981

It's worth noting that even the pros struggle with this sometimes.

simon_masterson

Wirral_Paul wrote:

you need to MTFU!! hehehe

Actually - descending on a stable bike is as much about relaxing and getting the weight distribution right as anything else. The more you can relax, the more then bike will just find its own stable line (and the more comfortable and relaxed you will feel). Tense up and it all goes pear-shaped - i've even seen wheel wobble induced by someone gripping the bars for dear life.

Simple answer - ride at the speed you are comfortable at and can relax at. You will naturally get faster in time so dont push yourself - its just not worth the high speed crash that will happen by riding faster than your ability.

Yep, sound advice.

If you haven't already, I'd recommend you invest in some rollers. One of the benefits of learning to ride them is that they discourage upper body tension (as well as generally helping with balance and confidence), which can help with this.

Initialised

Peddle Up! wrote:

What’s to be done? Are there road bike-based courses like the MTB events described? Would a MTB session help? To be honest I’d rather face the risk of an off in the woods and connecting with grass, soil and maybe a couple of rocks than find myself under an eight wheeler.

Yes it really helps, I think Cairngorm is the biggest descent you can do in this country since you'r basically riding the ski slopes off season, there's no woods that high up, it's a gravel track with boulders the size of footballs. You do half the slope, the full slope, a chunk of road, a load of sleeping policemen then a route through the forest to Aviemoor replete with fords, berms and trail features. The first thing they teach you is how to bring the bike to a stop without skidding on loose ground.

When I've spent time at other trail centres I always hit the road with a bit more confidence.

chiark

One tip from me, for what it's worth: I found the reflectors fitted to the wheels by the shop were seriously throwing my wheels out of balance, and at anything above 30-ish mph the effect was extremely disconcerting...

Removed them: problem gone.

Other than that, relax and keep things loose, manage where your weight is, etc...