Ooops! My fault really...

raymondo60

Barreling along the CS7 this morning, Colliers Wood High Street, when I see a guy on an MTB up-front. Decided to pass him and thought there was plenty of room - I wasn't even outside the blue paintline. Just as I start passing him, he swerves out to the right - i.e. away from the kerb, clips his right handlebar end against my left leg - it gets caught in the pocket of my shorts - and Bam! Over he goes, quite dramatically. I was really shocked and felt terrible immediately. Stopped and went back to help pick him up - it was a lucky thing he wasn't hurt badly - could have been a lot worse. I was also very fortunate in that an experienced commuter - tall South African guy - was at hand and immediately dispelled any tension by saying what an unfortunate accident it was etc. I owe my thanks to him whoever he was, and also my apologies to the kid on the MTB, who although obviously upset with me, did accept my profuse apologies and got back on his bike, albeit a little tenderly.

I have to accept responsibility though; I pass lots of people on bikes without incident, and while this particular biker did swerve out, I should have been more aware I think, and more prepared. I am suitably chastened and again am grateful that no one was badly hurt......

jds_1981

While I don't always stick to this rule, got to presume everyone is a nodder. My favourite sight is watching people violently swerve around manhole covers rather then cycle over them in a straight line...

kelsen

Raymondo60 wrote:

Barreling along the CS7 this morning, Colliers Wood High Street, when I see a guy on an MTB up-front. Decided to pass him and thought there was plenty of room - I wasn't even outside the blue paintline. Just as I start passing him, he swerves out to the right - i.e. away from the kerb, clips his right handlebar end against my left leg - it gets caught in the pocket of my shorts - and Bam! Over he goes, quite dramatically. I was really shocked and felt terrible immediately. Stopped and went back to help pick him up - it was a lucky thing he wasn't hurt badly - could have been a lot worse. I was also very fortunate in that an experienced commuter - tall South African guy - was at hand and immediately dispelled any tension by saying what an unfortunate accident it was etc. I owe my thanks to him whoever he was, and also my apologies to the kid on the MTB, who although obviously upset with me, did accept my profuse apologies and got back on his bike, albeit a little tenderly.

I have to accept responsibility though; I pass lots of people on bikes without incident, and while this particular biker did swerve out, I should have been more aware I think, and more prepared. I am suitably chastened and again am grateful that no one was badly hurt......

Very generous of you to take this viewpoint, but if this guy learned nothing from this incident, then you're not doing him any favours by apologising and implying it was all your fault. What if it had been a motorbike or a car? Wouldn't have been so fortunate for him then.

veronese68

I tend to agree with Kelsen, although I probably would have apologised were I in your position as well. Alright, so perhaps you could have left him a bit more room, I don't know as I wasn't there. But, he should check before he moves over and in my book should accept the vast majority of the blame. Glad he wasn't badly hurt and I hope he learns from it.
Not what happened here, but some people seem to delight in skimming past as close as they possibly can. That's not big or clever, what are they trying to achieve besides making the passee jump out of their skin.

robertsims

Doesn't really sound your fault, the only suggestion is if I ever overtake anyone i just say "on your right" as I'm about to pass them (obviously assuming I'm overtaking on their right hand side!) just to let them know I'm there.

jds_1981

RobertSims wrote:

Doesn't really sound your fault, the only suggestion is if I ever overtake anyone i just say "on your right" as I'm about to pass them (obviously assuming I'm overtaking on their right hand side!) just to let them know I'm there.

Probably not really feasible on one of the main cycle routes. May as well add a constantly sounding buzzer.

davis

I disagree with the 3 above, in that I do think it was at least slightly your fault (like you do!).

It's the responsibility of the overtaking vehicle to do so safely, in my book, so you should probably assume he's going to swerve because of that tree/pothole you haven't seen.

But yeah, I do try to shoulder-check when changing line (it's so automatic I do it while walking), and shout "on your right" prior to passing a cyclist/runner. Horseriders get way more notice! :-)

walkingbootweather

Yep, your fault for having pockets in your shorts

tgotb

jds_1981 wrote:

RobertSims wrote:

Doesn't really sound your fault, the only suggestion is if I ever overtake anyone i just say "on your right" as I'm about to pass them (obviously assuming I'm overtaking on their right hand side!) just to let them know I'm there.

Probably not really feasible on one of the main cycle routes. May as well add a constantly sounding buzzer.

Wait until you start doing cross races. Constant stream of 'left' and 'right' once you start lapping back-markers...

jonny_trousers

davis wrote:

I disagree with the 3 above, in that I do think it was at least slightly your fault (like you do!).

It's the responsibility of the overtaking vehicle to do so safely, in my book, so you should probably assume he's going to swerve because of that tree/pothole you haven't seen.

But yeah, I do try to shoulder-check when changing line (it's so automatic I do it while walking), and shout "on your right" prior to passing a cyclist/runner. Horseriders get way more notice! :-)

+1 to this. I suppose it all depends on how close the overtake was. We get pee'd off with motorcycles/taxis overtaking us too closely, just in case we need to quickly avoid hazards in the road, so why not cyclists too? With a bike you rarely even get the aural warning that they might be there.

Good on you OP for taking responsibility!

Bustacapp

Don't you have a bell on your bike?

roger_merriman

while those bike lanes are wider than some, they aren't exactly wide, a bike moving sidewise a bit is not really unreasonable, and MTB's can have wide bars mine would fill that with ease.

This said I can see how it could happen and your unlucky that the MTB did move just as you passed but unless he and you where moving slowly that does sound (1) too close assuming you did mean Colliers Wood High Street?

(1) clearly I wasn't there nor was any of us bar your self. so touch of salt.

raymondo60

Based on the principle of 'defensive driving/riding' (whereby you should always be ready to react to any given situation whether it is a result of your actions or not!) it was definitely my fault. The guy who witnessed it and rode with me for a while suggested that the kid on the MTB shouldn't have swerved out etc, but based on my principles I should have been prepared. Lesson learned (again), no one hurt (thank goodness) and after viewing that post with the Russian Drivers and their Camcorders I feel bloody great! Phew!

Gallywomack

Yet more proof that flat bars are a tool of satan.

Mr.Duck

Tie a tin can to your bike with some string and drag it along the road wherever you go. Everyone will hear you coming

Mr.Duck

davis wrote:

It's the responsibility of the overtaking vehicle to do so safely, in my book

No, if you were going round a parked car for example, it is your responsibility to check it's clear before you move out. It's not the responsibility of a car coming up behind you to preemptively take avoiding action.

It's like if you were in a car, overtaking another car on a single lane carriageway. Imagine being along side them in the middle of the overtake, and then they pull out to overtake the car in front of them, or a bike, or anything else, and crash into you. It would be their fault for causing the accident. When you are overtaking, you have to make sure it's clear behind you from anyone that might be overtaking you.

roger_merriman

Mr.Duck wrote:

davis wrote:

It's the responsibility of the overtaking vehicle to do so safely, in my book

No, if you were going round a parked car for example, it is your responsibility to check it's clear before you move out. It's not the responsibility of a car coming up behind you to preemptively take avoiding action.

It's like if you were in a car, overtaking another car on a single lane carriageway. Imagine being along side them in the middle of the overtake, and then they pull out to overtake the car in front of them, or a bike, or anything else, and crash into you. It would be their fault for causing the accident. When you are overtaking, you have to make sure it's clear behind you from anyone that might be overtaking you.

yes it would, but it's also not likely to be as close over take as overtaking another cyclist within the bike lane as the OP did. if one overtakes so close that if the vehicle deviates even slightly off line there will be a collision, then it will be your fault if nothing else because smaller vehicles such as bikes can disappear within the blind spots.

nich

A bit of both innit

He should have shoulder checked, you could have left more room, sorted!

raymondo60

nich wrote:

A bit of both innit

He should have shoulder checked, you could have left more room, sorted!

Probably the wisest words of the day - night all!

davis

Mr.Duck wrote:

davis wrote:

It's the responsibility of the overtaking vehicle to do so safely, in my book

No, if you were going round a parked car for example, it is your responsibility to check it's clear before you move out. It's not the responsibility of a car coming up behind you to preemptively take avoiding action.

Yes, it is. I'd call "not overtaking" in that situation to be "avoiding action". I.e. the car coming up behind you has both your path to consider and theirs.

It's like if you were in a car, overtaking another car on a single lane carriageway. Imagine being along side them in the middle of the overtake, and then they pull out to overtake the car in front of them, or a bike, or anything else, and crash into you. It would be their fault for causing the accident. When you are overtaking, you have to make sure it's clear behind you from anyone that might be overtaking you.

It ain't that black and white: when you're driving you try to judge vehicles' intent etc so you (well, I) wouldn't overtake a car if I judged it likely (or plausible) they'd overtake themselves.
Obviously if you're talking about a specific hypothetical in which someone you're overtaking blindly swings into you without checking, then yeah, it's their fault.

In any case, I'd rather avoid an accident than argue over whose fault it was, and constructing hypothetical examples (especially of driving) in t'internet arguments is tedious at best, so I'll give up now!

zx6man

HWC does say somewhere you have to expcect bikes and motorcycles to swerve in the road, unless its not the case, not seen it for years :-)

jimmypippa

zx6man wrote:

HWC does say somewhere you have to expcect bikes and motorcycles to swerve in the road, unless its not the case, not seen it for years :-)

The link in the post before yours:

davis wrote:

Mr.Duck wrote:

davis wrote:

It's the responsibility of the overtaking vehicle to do so safely, in my book

No, if you were going round a parked car for example, it is your responsibility to check it's clear before you move out. It's not the responsibility of a car coming up behind you to preemptively take avoiding action.

Yes, it is. I'd call "not overtaking" in that situation to be "avoiding action". I.e. the car coming up behind you has both your path to consider and theirs.

It's like if you were in a car, overtaking another car on a single lane carriageway. Imagine being along side them in the middle of the overtake, and then they pull out to overtake the car in front of them, or a bike, or anything else, and crash into you. It would be their fault for causing the accident. When you are overtaking, you have to make sure it's clear behind you from anyone that might be overtaking you.

It ain't that black and white: when you're driving you try to judge vehicles' intent etc so you (well, I) wouldn't overtake a car if I judged it likely (or plausible) they'd overtake themselves.
Obviously if you're talking about a specific hypothetical in which someone you're overtaking blindly swings into you without checking, then yeah, it's their fault.

In any case, I'd rather avoid an accident than argue over whose fault it was, and constructing hypothetical examples (especially of driving) in t'internet arguments is tedious at best, so I'll give up now!

Many car drivers don't understand that rule. Passing close because I took primary to discourage such overtaking due to me going at the speed of the car in front, just leaving a larger gap than the average car user.

raymondo60

It was still my fault peeps.......... :-(