2 Cyclists Killed on the A30
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Terrible day for cyclists.
All down here are asking why use the A30 when other routes run parallel, but I guess local knowlege is something you can't have and I could make the same mistake in Scotland/Yorkshire/Wales etc.
The trouble is that after Exeter, the M5 splits into the A30 and A38, so effectively whichever road you're on for half of Devon and all of Cornwall, it has become a 2 lane motorway with no hard shoulder.
Tragic; just hope others can learn from this..0 -
Is there a searchable "Roads for cyclists to avoid" database, that could draw on such local knowledge? It would be a boon for planning trips in unfamiliar parts. That way we really could learn something from such tragic occurrences. Something simple with headings like 'Area', 'Road No.' 'Reason to avoid' would be ample to help make informed choices.plymouthsteve wrote:All down here are asking why use the A30 when other routes run parallel, but I guess local knowlege is something you can't have and I could make the same mistake in Scotland/Yorkshire/Wales etc. [...] Tragic; just hope others can learn from this..0 -
These two guys worked for the same company as me. Dreadfully sad news. Their plan was to do the 960 miles in 7 days on behalf of a memorial fund set up for a young female colleague who died from cancer. RIP Andrew and Toby0
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R0B75 wrote:Its not jumping to conclusion at all, because they are dangerous places to be.
And yet I work in road safety and know that this is not the case. Some DCs are more dangerous than others, it is to do with layout not the speed of traffic. By the rationale that higher speeds make roads more dangerous then motorways would be more dangerous for drivers / motorcyclists than rural A roads, all the accident stats suggest otherwise. If someone comes hammering along a rural A road, 7.3m wide and with 150m of visibility they are going to have a harder time reacting to suddenly encountering a cyclist than if they are doing 80mph along a section of wide dual carriageway where they can see for literally a mile. Obviously some dual carriageways aren't as wide or open and can therefore be more dangerous as I said above and crossing slip roads isn't fun.0 -
Cruising velocity isn't the issue, it's speed differential.
I expect a few other driver's were 'surprised' to see some bikers trundling along at up to 65mph slower than the flow of traffic at rush hour. That gives very little time to react which is only compounded by the poor weather conditions.
Peeky, please accept my condolences for you and your other colleagues that knew them.0 -
@ Pross - Whilst the most accidents may 'statistically' occur on A roads you well know that your synopsis above is not the full story.
Yes speed is not specifically an accident waiting to happen, but the fact is that if you are on a fast road on something that can only do 20mph the speed differential is the real problem. Also drivers on such wide/open roads are not expecting such a difference and by the time they realise the problem it is often too late.
The reason the HA make people get out of their stranded vehicles now is because 'statistically' you will be hit within 8 minutes of stopping on the hard shoulder. Something that in your profession you should also know only too well.
Regardless of the statistics of accidents there really is no place for cycling on fast dual carriageways.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
Absolute and total rubbish. If that stat were true, every single car that breaks down on the motorway would result in a high speed accident. It clearly doesn't.smidsy wrote:The reason the HA make people get out of their stranded vehicles now is because 'statistically' you will be hit within 8 minutes of stopping on the hard shoulder.Mangeur0 -
We ended up on the A30 for a LEJOG ride earlier in the year. Horrible experience, especially the dual carriageway bits, will defiantly never repeat the experience.
Always sad to see this stuff like this happen.0 -
I'll start another thread on this as I don't think the debate is helpful on this thread and is derailing from the unfortunate deaths of two people.0
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natrix wrote:smidsy wrote:The reason the HA make people get out of their stranded vehicles now is because 'statistically' you will be hit within 8 minutes of stopping on the hard shoulder.
What is the point of making up rubbish like this???
From the most recent Police Study
Three hundred and sixty vehicles (77% of the total) had stopped on the hard shoulder as a result of accidents.Twenty-four of these had been involved in collisions with vehicles already on the hard shoulder. Vehicles hit while on the hard shoulder had been there for an average of just over 11 minutes and, in two cases, for as little as 10 seconds.
So the numbers change with every survey but that was kind of the point - numbers aside cycling on fast dual carriageways is not sensible.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
Re the getting hit on the hard shoulder. Most motorways have hard shoulders all of the way along. Most dual carriageways don't have full 'hard shoulders'.
That stationary cars manage to get hit at all shows how poor some drivers observe what is ahead.0 -
such a sad story to read about and another reality check regarding how dangerous our roads can be.
This brought back memories of a well known local man who died last year, the driver involved is actually in court this week.
Will be following the story with interest
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/local/driver- ... -1-58185000 -
New thread for the Dual Carriageway discussion: viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=129303860
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Looks like mr wrathall is banged to rights. Can't imagine why he bothered to plead not guilty... Another senseless death caused by reckless stupidity0
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be interesting to see what punishment is handed down to him0
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Terrible news. Started planning my LEJOG a few months back and the first thing I said to myself was I would not touch the A30 - I don't like driving on it, can only imagine how bad cycling on it must be. Thoughts go out to the families.0
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Mikey23 wrote:Looks like mr wrathall is banged to rights. Can't imagine why he bothered to plead not guilty... Another senseless death caused by reckless stupidity
I'm quite shocked at this. As a motorsport fan, i've seen his name/face about over the years. Had no idea.
I suppose you 'have' to try and get away with it (if you want to continue anything like a normal life), but with so much damning evidence i would thinkt it was unwise. Better to stick your hand up and take it like a man.0 -
backo wrote:such a sad story to read about and another reality check regarding how dangerous our roads can be.
This brought back memories of a well known local man who died last year, the driver involved is actually in court this week.
Will be following the story with interest
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/local/driver- ... -1-5818500
I don't like the way that report chose to say the cyclist collided with the van, it (probably unintentionally) implies blame on the cyclist although the rest of the report is pretty damning of the driver.0 -
Really saddened by both the news and this thread - glad there is now another thread to debate the choice of roads we cycle on.
RIP.0 -
My wife worked with both of these cyclists and was very upset this morning when she found out. I told her it was being discussed on here and she wondered if there wasn't some warning on the LEJOG websites about legs that local cyclists know are dangerous and options of other routes. Having entertained doing this ride at some stage I will do a ton more research and maybe ask local clubs for their ideas in their areas.0
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cyclingsheep wrote:My wife worked with both of these cyclists and was very upset this morning when she found out. I told her it was being discussed on here and she wondered if there wasn't some warning on the LEJOG websites about legs that local cyclists know are dangerous and options of other routes. Having entertained doing this ride at some stage I will do a ton more research and maybe ask local clubs for their ideas in their areas.
30 seconds Googling will make it clear that the A30 should be avoided. And an hour or two on a mapping website is all it'd take to come up with a good alternative.
Too many cyclists fall into picking the most direct route so they can do LEJOG in as impressive a time as possible. Better to plan the route then decide on the time you'll take to make it suitably challenging and/or impressive,More problems but still living....0 -
firstly condolences to both families. I just read the link regarding Mr Finkleton and again its very sad and if Frank Wrathall is found to be guilty then the court needs to hand out a proper sentence for manslaughter and not a couple of years for dangerous driving. Until this happens then expect nothing to change.0
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cyclingsheep wrote:My wife worked with both of these cyclists and was very upset this morning when she found out. I told her it was being discussed on here and she wondered if there wasn't some warning on the LEJOG websites about legs that local cyclists know are dangerous and options of other routes. Having entertained doing this ride at some stage I will do a ton more research and maybe ask local clubs for their ideas in their areas.
Not sure if I am allowed to mention other websites, but I used the LEJOG board on the ctc forums. The guys there are really friendly. I put my proposed routes up and all the locals were happy to offer alternatives to avoid any dangerous/not much fun areas.
Using that along with streetview and you should be able to avoid all the dangerous areas.0 -
cyclingsheep wrote:she wondered if there wasn't some warning on the LEJOG websites about legs that local cyclists know are dangerous and options of other routes. .
I did a 500 mile '3 Peaks' ride in May. When i went to plan the route, one of my co-rider's 'had already done it all for me on the British Cycling route planner' and sent me the .gpx
It included ALOT of dual carriageways, but avoided motorways. I know that it simply uses the google map algorithm, but had i just accepted what BC's own route planner had said and set off, i would have been in rather alot of peril. I don't really see the point in the BC planner, it's clunky and very limited. better off using bikehike/route toaster etc. I think they should just drop it.
In the end, i invested alot of time in coming up with a quiet route (as much as possible). There were 2 or 3 spots where single lanes turned into duals for a period which were unavoidable. They were not pleasant.0 -
condolences to both families, whatever the views of where they were, terrible thing to happen0
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Yeah I know this road. Bloody stupid I know, but maybe for the superior road surface?smidsy wrote:Sad and all that but let that be a lesson to all of us.
I have never understood why people cycle on high speed dual carriageways. There was a guy a few weeks ago on the new A46 dual carriageway (between Nott and Newark).
The old A46 runs parallel and is essentially empty. I was literally like WTF!0 -
I was driving along about 20 miles of the A30 today and was more attentive of the state of it. What remains of the hard shoulder is littered with debris, road kill, cats eyes etc. in some places this is only inches wide and in others has disappeared altogether as vegetation has encroached leaving cyclists nowhere to go but the carriageway. I was quite surprised how bad it was.
Did pass a couple of joglers going from launceston towards Bodmin and was able to get into the middle lane to pass as conditions were benign and traffic was light. This was not the case i understand on the morning of the accident
Tapping into local knowledge (always a dangerous thing) suggests that driver was finishing a night shift. Falling asleep at the wheel therefore becomes a possibility, so could have happened on any road and at anytime...0
