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FFWD F4R FCC vs. Zipp 60

GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
edited July 2013 in Road buying advice
Hello,
I'm in a big dilemma. I'm planning to buy a new set of wheels. It will be the Zipp 60's or the FFWD's. Does anyone has some experience with one of these wheelsets and what do you advise me to buy?
The problem is, the breaking with full carbon clinchers is not that good. Zipp 60 has aluminium breaking surfaces. Also the heat transfer worries me. Some said that in high speed descends the wheel will explode. So, any advice you can give me before I buy?
One more thing, where I live, most of the time there is around 3-5 bft wind. It is flat and the roads are nice. But, I also like to do cobblestones. Keep this in mind when writing an advice. :)
But, I see the zipp has 58mm rim, that's pretty high. Or, do need to buy the ffwd f4r-c?

links to wheels:
- ffwd's: http://www.ffwdwheels.com/producten/wie ... ite-nl-NL/
- zipp's: http://www.zipp.com/wheels/60-clincher/

Thx in advance.
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Posts

  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,022
    If you, like me, like the cobblestones, why on earth do you want carbon rims? Yes, they do survive Paris-Roubaix in most cases, but surviving and living long enough to do it again are different things...
    Get a set of Nemesis tubulars, up to 2009 they were the rims to have for the cobbles and for amateurs they still are the rims to have for the cobbles. The ride is sublime on tarmac too... you can have them built to your specifications for around 4-500 euro on good hubs

    An old post on my blog

    http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... discipline
    left the forum March 2023
  • Stu517Stu517 Posts: 41
    If you are looking at a 60mm rim i.e. the Zipp 60 then the Fast Forward F6R's are more what you are looking for and not the F4's.

    I have set of F6R's albeit the Tub version. Without kicking off the Tub v Clincher debate why do you want carbon rims in a clincher?

    The stories you have heard about rims exploding relate to carbon clinchers. However, as far as I understand this occurs on poorer standard rims and after heavy periods of braking i.e. long descent's. I don't think this would be too much of an issue in this country unless you really drag the brakes on descents.

    That being said I beleive the top end manufacturos like Zipp, Fast Forward, Enve etc have resolved the exploding clincher rim issue.......I wouldnt want to test it though!!

    Safer to stick with Tubs......... :wink:
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    Yea I know, tubulars ride smoother and are little bit better, but when you then have a flat tire, it takes long to change them. When riding clinchers the changing goes lot faster, just put a new inner tube in and your ride goes on.
    But it's not that every time I take my bike for a ride, that I do cobblestones.
    As i said, there is a lot of wind out here every day (Belgium), so when riding too high profile wheels it's a bit dangerous riding in group. My weight is around 64...
    And about these nemesis's, my budget is €1500 max...
    Right now I got some DT Swiss wheels. They were standard on my bike when I bought it. Way to heavy.

    Still don't know what to choose... The 45mm rim (ffwd) or the 58 one (zipp).
    The zipp's are around €1000 and ffwd's €1400. Zipp uses alu breaks so I don't need to change the break pads...

    Aargh I need advice on both sets...
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    guys?
    I would like to get an answer which set to take... I think Zipp makes higher quality sets then FFWD, anyone agrees/disagree?
    NEED TIPS!:s
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 12,015
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    Right now I got some DT Swiss wheels. They were standard on my bike when I bought it. Way to heavy.

    If the DT's are 'way too heavy' - why are you planning on replacing them with 60mm clinchers?? I think your reasoning for deep sections is completely flawed, to be honest. But don't let that stop you buying some.
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    They are around 2Kg... The 60's just look good :D and I think i'll get some profit too...
    Got one more thing to say,
    my weight is around 65, when riding, i usually do around 100Km with an average of around 30Km/h. Will i have profit when I'll ride high profile wheels? As I said, I like cobblestones, so when I ride over them, will they survive?
  • CalpolCalpol Posts: 1,039
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    They are around 2Kg... The 60's just look good :D and I think i'll get some profit too...
    Got one more thing to say,
    my weight is around 65, when riding, i usually do around 100Km with an average of around 30Km/h. Will i have profit when I'll ride high profile wheels? As I said, I like cobblestones, so when I ride over them, will they survive?
    I would have thought that you will get little benefit riding 60mm rims at that speed. they will look good but don't expect to go much/any faster or for them to be as durable across cobblestones as the type of hand built solution suggested by Ugo. Zipp will likely be worth more when you realise this and sell them on.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 12,015
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    The 60's just look good :D

    In which case, stop trying to rationalise the choice and buy the wheels which you think look the nicest.
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    So, you say i'll don't get a lot of benefit, and you recommend not buying the zipp's but the ffwd's?
    I'm sorry i don't understand well english (I'm from Belgium and 16 yrs old :p)

    And imposter, i know, i do want to get good wheels, my dad has fulcrum racing 1's and they are pretty nice also... I love the zipp's but i'm afraid i'll be dissapointed of buying high profile wheels...
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,022
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    They are around 2Kg... The 60's just look good :D and I think i'll get some profit too...
    Got one more thing to say,
    my weight is around 65, when riding, i usually do around 100Km with an average of around 30Km/h. Will i have profit when I'll ride high profile wheels? As I said, I like cobblestones, so when I ride over them, will they survive?

    If you are not prepared to listen to any of the advice given, don't ask... and get what you like... the 60 look good and they'll stamp a smile on your face even if they weigh more than my father's leather mountaineering boots from the 1960s
    Happy? :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    Imposter wrote:
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    Right now I got some DT Swiss wheels. They were standard on my bike when I bought it. Way to heavy.

    If the DT's are 'way too heavy' - why are you planning on replacing them with 60mm clinchers?? I think your reasoning for deep sections is completely flawed, to be honest. But don't let that stop you buying some.

    This. You're worried about weight, durability, and resilience to crosswinds yet you're looking at a deep section carbon clincher? Really?

    I would go with Ugo's advise as his logic is sound, but if you must have carbon RZR Teams will hold up to the cobbles.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    haha ugo :) Yes i do listen to the advice you guys give. But as i said i like cobbles but i don't always ride them... Now it's 3 weeks ago since i've seen some...
    I really would like to buy a new set of wheels. But will I be dissapointed when I buy high profile wheels? Some people in our team have carbon wheels, and when they ride in a hole, it sounds a bit hollow and a hard feeling when riding...


    @Grill, I don't really need to have carbon wheels. I also like the fulcrum racing 1's
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    + Look at the title, FFWD F4R FCC. But they have carbon breaking surfaces, and i've read that it breaks not as good as alu. That's why the zipp's interest me.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,022
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    haha ugo :) Yes i do listen to the advice you guys give. But as i said i like cobbles but i don't always ride them... Now it's 3 weeks ago since i've seen some...
    I really would like to buy a new set of wheels. But will I be dissapointed when I buy high profile wheels? Some people in our team have carbon wheels, and when they ride in a hole, it sounds a bit hollow and a hard feeling when riding...


    @Grill, I don't really need to have carbon wheels. I also like the fulcrum racing 1's

    What you really want/need is a set of Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL/SLR... they have all the alloy advantages and they have the important deep carbon ring with large logos around that sets you apart from the plebs...
    left the forum March 2023
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    I've seen them before, it was my first choice. But how is there ride?
    Oh god i'm fickle :p
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    haha ugo :) Yes i do listen to the advice you guys give. But as i said i like cobbles but i don't always ride them... Now it's 3 weeks ago since i've seen some...
    I really would like to buy a new set of wheels. But will I be dissapointed when I buy high profile wheels? Some people in our team have carbon wheels, and when they ride in a hole, it sounds a bit hollow and a hard feeling when riding...


    @Grill, I don't really need to have carbon wheels. I also like the fulcrum racing 1's

    What you really want/need is a set of Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL/SLR... they have all the alloy advantages and they have the important deep carbon ring with large logos around that sets you apart from the plebs...

    :lol: Good call.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    What u mean by good call?
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    I mean listen to his advice. I'll save you the trouble of explaining the subtext...
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,022
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    I've seen them before, it was my first choice. But how is there ride?
    Oh god i'm fickle :p


    I guess the ride depends on the roads you take... will probably be a bit bumpy up the Oude Kwaremont, I suspect... :wink:

    Here is my "aero wheels for dummies", take the numbers with a pinch of salt, they are just numbers, they don't mean much

    http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... -they-work
    left the forum March 2023
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    Thx bro :)

    I like the Kwaremont :p 50K from my door :)
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,022
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    Thx bro :)

    I like the Kwaremont :p 50K from my door :)

    I like the Kwaremont too, I am not the best climber among my "travel mates" but I am always the first on top of the Kwaremont, often with quite a margin... I guess it's all in my Nemesis rims :mrgreen:
    left the forum March 2023
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    ahahahah :D but i don't want tubulars... I like the Kemmelberg the most. Have u ridden him one time?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,022
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    ahahahah :D but i don't want tubulars... I like the Kemmelberg the most. Have u ridden him one time?

    No... I have never done any of the Gent-Wevelgen
    left the forum March 2023
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    Do it! It's nice :p Also cobbled and max 23% i think :)
    So I need to take the mavic's? They have 52mm rim I think. Will they survive when I do a cobble section?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,022
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    Do it! It's nice :p Also cobbled and max 23% i think :)
    So I need to take the mavic's? They have 52mm rim I think. Will they survive when I do a cobble section?

    As far as factory wheels go, the SL are among the most robust... certainly the most robust among the deep section wheels. The SLR might give you more grief, with carbon spokes etc...
    Otherwise... last time I was in Belgium I have seen Pete Van Petegem on a magazine riding a pair of chinese carbon clinchers... the really cheap ones from Carbonzone and the likes... :shock:
    All wheels will survive a few cobbles, not many will survive many cobbles, if that makes sense... it also depends which tyres you ride
    left the forum March 2023
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    I ride at the moment with veloflex 25mm tyres. Done 700 km's with them and no flat tires. Very very nice. I still don't know what to buy. The ffwd's, the zipps, mavic's, fulcrum,... Aaargh. Help me out:)
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    And what's the advantage of hand-build wheels?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,022
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    And what's the advantage of hand-build wheels?

    You won't be seen crying in the workshop section when you bend a rim... 8)
    left the forum March 2023
  • GringoElDiabloGringoElDiablo Posts: 37
    Huh?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,022
    GringoElDiablo wrote:
    Huh?

    http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... nd-fiction
    left the forum March 2023
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