Tips sought - how to gel with a bike

reformedfatty

I've owned my full susser for over a year now, and yet every ride I still seem to be experimenting with ways to make it 'feel' right. It seems skittish and not very happy holding a line through rough stuff, and I tend to ride lazily on it because it doesn't inspire confidence, and because you can just casually pedal through most stuff in comfort with the suspension.

My cheap hardtail by comparison feels perfect, aggressive and keen to be flung down trails.

I've played with tyre and shock pressures, shorter stem, wider bars, different grips, saddle. I'm beginning to think full sussers just aren't for me. My riding is about a 50/50 split between all day xc rides on natural stuff and trail centres.

Opinions?

cooldad

And the bike is?

paul.skibum

I find I have to ride my FS differently to my HT - I find on the hardtail it is easier to be aggressive as I find I tend to be up out of the saddle to pedal more which in turn leaves me feeling like I am kicking it through the turns more and attacking the trail. My FS was an old frame with a dodgy spring shock which I changed to air after a couple of years and I now find it easier with the floodgate thingy on middle to be aggressive on the bike as it is more supportive of standing pedalling.

Assuming your mystery bike is a modern one with good pedalling qualities I'd suggest a play with things like the stem length and bar width might alter your stance on the bike. Also shock pressures and sag.

The Rookie

I'm guessing a Boardman FS.
viewtopic.php?f=10002&t=12918557&p=18288065#p18288065

reformedfatty

Tis indeed a Boardman team FS. I'm confident that the shock pressures are ok.. maybe a little tweak on the rebound on the front but thats it. bar width and stem length already done.

The Rookie

So what sag do you have front and rear?

Which model with which shock and forks?

The Boardmans fall between and XC and a trail bike and will feel skittish (like a hardtail) over rougher stuff, riding it lazily helps, that or 100% commitment, 90% commitment is probably the worst place to be at.

paul.skibum

Maybe its too big (or small)?
Give us the exact spec - you say bar and stem already done - what did you do to them? Clearly you are trying the things we are going to suggest so maybe giving us a little insight into what you have would help - a bland I cant ride my bike question is opening too many possible answers.

cooldad

If you've had it a year and still don't like it, sell it and stick to the hardtail. Simple.

miss notax

Tyres...?

reformedfatty

The Beginner wrote:

So what sag do you have front and rear?

Which model with which shock and forks?

The Boardmans fall between and XC and a trail bike and will feel skittish (like a hardtail) over rougher stuff, riding it lazily helps, that or 100% commitment, 90% commitment is probably the worst place to be at.

Running at a little under 30% sag front and rear, worked up from 20 till it felt right, also using the typical ride just about manages to use all of the travel benchmark.

Stem changed from 100 to 80mm and bars to 700 from 680.

Original 2.2 mountain king tyres

Both this and my hardtail (carrera fury) have the same head angle. hardtail still has original 680 bars and stem. Hardtail does have 2.3" speed kings.

The main complaint with the FS is that it feels very keen to wash out the front end

angry_bird

If it's washing out obviously you need to find more grip so, get some grippier tyres for a start, chances are the compound will be crap on the MKs if they're the originals. Technique wise, make sure you're getting enough of your weight over the front wheel so it gets a chance to grip.

Shortening the stem and narrowing the bars will have sharpened up the steering a bit too, possibly making it feel more twitchy and less stable.

Kowalski675

Angry Bird wrote:

If it's washing out obviously you need to find more grip so, get some grippier tyres for a start, chances are the compound will be crap on the MKs if they're the originals.

I've just bought a Team FS, and everything I've read (and heard from a mate who also has one) about the OE plastic compound Mountain King wired rubber says take them off and fit something decent (they're supposed to be scarily bad in the wet).

I'm going wider on the bars, 'cos to me the OE 690mm feels way too narrow and twitchy, and that's based on just a quick play outside my house and a few miles on gentle trails on my mate's FS, never mind on anything gnarly. I'm gonna order some 750mm, and maybe cut them down to 730ish, depending on how they feel. I might try a 70mm stem too (standard is 90mm).

felix.london

reformedfatty wrote:

Stem changed from 100 to 80mm and bars to 700 from 680.

I don't think I'd notice if someone took away or added 10mm to each end of my bars

angry_bird

felix.london wrote:

reformedfatty wrote:

Stem changed from 100 to 80mm and bars to 700 from 680.

I don't think I'd notice if someone took away or added 10mm to each end of my bars

But take 20% of the length away from your stem and you might.

reformedfatty

Maybe not

I'm pretty sure the original bar width + stem length were 680 and 100.. certainly it feels like I'm much more over the front now than originally.

Hmm what tyres then.. no clearance for wider than the current 2.2s . Something with decent grip on the shoulder for natural / mud trails, but a soft enough compound that it'll be ok for the compacted surfaces at trail centres.

Oh, frame size is a large - 19". I'm 6ft. Hardtail is 18", and is a teensy bit small, but very chuckable. Much as I hate that term.

paul.skibum

But you wont feel more over the front shortening the stem - you will be less on the front especially as you have made a more pronounced change in stem length than you have bar width.

I'd definitely chuck some new tyres on it and then have a go at keeping my weight over the front wheel into corners. I dont wish to sound like I am teaching my granny to do anything but the majority of people I see out on trails spend too much time sitting on full sussers into corners which compresses suspension and sends weight rearwards (generally) leading to a nervous front end.

Kowalski675

reformedfatty wrote:

Maybe not

I'm pretty sure the original bar width + stem length were 680 and 100

Maybe they changed them - 2013 bikes have 90mm stem on all frame sizes.

The Rookie

With others on this, the shorter stem and (fractionally) narrower bars will reduce the weight on the front, however the biggest issue is almost certainly the tyres.

bartimaeus

If you have a layback seatpost then replacing it with an inline post will move you forward and put more weight on your front wheel - especially when you are seated. But more weight won't help if you have no confidence in the grip of your tyres, or your general cornering ability (as I know this from experience, running wide on corners :oops: )

benpinnick

Sell it and stick to the hardtail. The Boardman FS is massively overrated. People see the kit (which is very good for the money of course) and forget that the overall bike just doesn't work that well, at least, thats what I thought after half an hour on a mate's. Not a terrible bike by any stretch, but overrated none the less. If you prefer the hardtail, sell the FS and invest in some better wheels and forks for the HT.

reformedfatty

Ordered a nicely discounted High Roller and an Ignitor to see how that goes.

In the meantime took the hardtail out last night, 5 minutes faster even though I included the skills loop this time - admittedly it was dry rather than a bit soggy, but it was proper good fun. Standing up on the pedals and blasting through the lumpy bits popping off kickers is so much more rewarding than being tempted to just sit and relax as the FS can do.

The Rookie

Don't be tempted then!

The Boardman is a short travel FS and should mostly be ridden like an HT on tech stuff, just taking advantage of sitting on slightly lumpier bits than you can on the HT!

reformedfatty

New tyres on.. inspired by mbuks review a quick check round the bike also revealed a loose main pivot bolt which probably didnt help. Next outing tomorrow evening!

The Rookie

Good luck!

daveenglish

The Boardman FS is a ver capable bike. I changed the stem to a 40mm and put big old wide bars on it. The result looked shocking but it handled really well. The mountain Kings are a bit skitish and I think this is your main problem. I personaly like the feel of them. I like a bit of slide in the rear wheel but I swapped the front for something with a bit more grip. Conti vapour was hanging in my shed so I used that to see. The front end was a precise as anything and the back end a bit loose (literaly). It's all up to personal taste. You certainly wont find the holy grail of bike setup by asking a question on here. Best advice is to get out and experiment some more. incidently, you have checked all the pivot bearings for slop???

julesj

It normally takes me a good few weeks on a bike to start tweaking it to how I like it.

If the bike is feeling skittish I would look at the suspension settings. You may think you have them right, but in my experience an extra click or two or less or more air can make a big difference.

Also make sure the contact points on the bike are all spot on (tyres, grips, pedals and saddle) If you don't trust your tyres or the grips are the wrong shape then you can have a fancy bike that won't feel good.

I like to have my bikes set up fairly similarly (wide bars, short stem, reasonably slack, lowish bb, firm suspension)

Geometry, for me is the most important part of a bike. I know what I like and replicate this will all my bikes. it might be worth looking at the hardtail and seeing what is different with your full suspension bike.

Finally if you don't ride a bike that often it can take quite a while to get used to the handling.

reformedfatty

New tyres on, another damp ride.. much better.. tweaked the tyre pressures a bit. Better again.. Rear shock pressure could use a bit more.. but close enough.

Verdict : still not as much fun as the hardtail. Going up for sale. Still a good bike that's served me well across the peak district, wales and the southwest.