ECU reprogramming worth it?

stubs

My car is getting a bit heavy on the petrol, its in good conditon been fully serviced with new Bosch plugs fitted a month ago but its just a bit sluggish. It has been recommended I get the ECU remapped and I have been told it will boost fuel economy and throttle response. Anyone had this done, did it make any difference and is it worth £200. I am a bit dubious but I dont know much about car electronics so I could be overthinking it.

nicklouse

car?

stubs

2005 Astra 1.6

Kowalski675

If it's a normally aspirated petrol engine then remapping will give small gains in power & torque, but probably not economy. It's turbo diesels that really benefit from remapping, with big gains to be had.

Myster101

I had my BMW E46 M3 remapped which gave better throttle response and made it smoother through the revs (no flat spots). MPG was still shoot but you don't buy an M3 for economy if its really bothering you, and £200 seems OK, then go for it. But don't expect too much.

stubs

As I am only really interested in economy I dont think its worth it, if I am only going to get fractional gains in fuel consumption it might be better to buy some top quality tyres.

£200 is a lot of money I could spend on shiny things for my bike

acidstrato

wont do fuck all don't waste your money

cooldad

I can see the point if you are looking for performance, but I'd generally assume that if fuel consumption can be improved with a bit of remapping, the manufacturers would have done it.

Kowalski675

cooldad wrote:

I can see the point if you are looking for performance, but I'd generally assume that if fuel consumption can be improved with a bit of remapping, the manufacturers would have done it.

It's not that simple. The manufacturers OE fuel mapping has to pass stringent EU emissions tests - the fuelling is set up for those first, with performance and/or economy coming lower down the list. Lucky for those of us who have a penchant for two wheels, EU emissions nazi tests for bikes (for now) only apply at point of sale, not at MOT time, so we can remap to our hearts content without having to get through any emissions testing. I've got a full race exhaust system on my Triumph (flows much better and ditches the OE catalytic converter) and am currently running the manufacturer's off the peg fuel map for that exhaust, but have been intending to get it on the dyno and have a custom fuel map done - combine that with switching off the lambda sensor and blocking off the secondary air injection system (both of which are just emisssions bollox) and you're looking at significant gains in performance, particularly in the midrange, and a much smoother power curve that fills out the holes put there by emissions regulations and makes for a much more responsive and driveable engine. Economy should be no worse, or even slightly improved, but that's not really a consideration - it only averaged 26mpg on my last ride anyway, so a couple more mpg isn't going to save much cash, lol.

stubs

Both my front tyres are getting towards the wear bars so going to buy some new tyres instead. http://www.blackcircles.com have got a good deal on Dunlop bluResponse tyres for £72 each fitted and balanced they are B energy rated so probably work out a bit better on fuel than the current winter tyres I have on.

Kowalski675

stubs wrote:

Both my front tyres are getting towards the wear bars so going to buy some new tyres instead.

That would seem to be a more pressing priority, lol...

slindborg

No point in having a calibration screw up, oops I mean 'remap' done on anything non turbo charged IMHO.
And definitely do not have a diesel 'remapped' as its just not worth the gamble with £2-3k of fuel injection equipment.

If the recalibration is from the oem and warranties by the oem the. Yeah sure, like the Mountune stuff for the fiesta, focus and rs as they used the proper calibration tools, have a warranty and the guys doing it actually worked on the main program's.

/voe from spending years designing software for Diesel engine management

Kowalski675

slindborg wrote:

No point in having a calibration screw up, oops I mean 'remap' done on anything non turbo charged IMHO.

I'd agree for cars (hence my earlier post), but not for bikes. A remap's essential for running a race exhaust system (unless you like engines that run like crap and blow up, lol - mine's running the off the peg map developed in conjunction between Triumph and Arrow for the race sytem I've fitted), and done right makes a very noticable difference (for the better). If/when I get mine done it'll be a custom map by Mark Brewin at BSD - what he doesn't know about mapping FI ain't worth knowing - and it'll be done on a dyno, custom mapping the whole rev range in every gear for all RPMs and throttle position (in conjunction with switching off the unnecessary lambda sensor and secondary air injection crap, and maybe a set of new Venturi Systems ally inlet trumpets). The result's a few bhp gain at top end, but with (more importantly) a fatter midrange and smoother power curve, a much more driveable engine in every gear and an AF ratio tuned for optimum performance, rather than to get through EU emissions regs bullshit. Well worth doing, with absoultely no adverse effects on reliability (the opposite, if anything, since the AFR is spot on, instead of compromised for the meddling EU treehuggers). EU emissions homologation testing's getting so stringent that with some bikes (notably big twin KTMs) a remap's practically essential to get the bike properly rideable, since the fuelling's so snatchy from the factory - smooth throttle performance is a bit more critical on a 130bhp V twin weighing 200kg than it is in a family hatchback.

slindborg

If an engine (bike or car) is almost un useable then the calibration team didnt do their job properly. Its got nothing to do with eu regs (note the us regs are even tighter so blame them if anyone), its purely down to doing the right job. We calibrated a few chinky v twins etc to pass eu emissions and it was up on power and more rideable than their own attempt not that you'd want to ride a bike made of monkey metal and newspaper,

cooldad

B0llocks to all that, bring back 2 strokes, premix and a nice haze. Carbs I understand, injection is black magic to me.

Kowalski675

slindborg wrote:

If an engine (bike or car) is almost un useable then the calibration team didnt do their job properly. Its got nothing to do with eu regs (note the us regs are even tighter so blame them if anyone), its purely down to doing the right job. We calibrated a few chinky v twins etc to pass eu emissions and it was up on power and more rideable than their own attempt not that you'd want to ride a bike made of monkey metal and newspaper,

It's entirely down to EU emissions regs - it's now virtually impossible to get a big V twin with a smooth power delivery without a wanky fly by wire throttle. Of all manufacturers, KTM are arguably the most performance orientated, and have masses of motorsport experience and engineers more than capable of "doing the right job" but their big V twins are notoriously snatchily fuelled, because they're hamstrung by the EU meddlers - a remap's pretty much essential, if you want the bike to ride like the engineers intended it to, rather than how the unelected EU paper pushers want it to. My Street Triple R suffers from a snatchy transition from a closed/trailing throttle to open throttle (about the only flaw the model's known for), which is a real pain in the arse on an otherwise pretty perfect bike, and it's all down to the FI mapping.

Kowalski675

cooldad wrote:

B0llocks to all that, bring back 2 strokes, premix and a nice haze. Carbs I understand, injection is black magic to me.

Amen to that, brother - you're preaching to the converted here. Fuel injection will never match the silky smooth analogue power delivery of a well set up bank of CV carbs (my old mate's carb fed '98 R1 felt more like a jet turbine than a transverse four). Unfortunately the unelected EU commission say that we're not allowed carbs anymore, never mind performance 2 strokes. I despise all the shite that's ruining modern motorcycles - fuel injection, fly by wire throttles, selectable power modes, ABS, traction control, anti wheelie systems etc etc - shove it all where the sun don't shine, I don't want any of it. The current "crossplane crank" model of R1 has a solenoid that raises a slide in the headlight to switch between high and low beam - how utterly f*****g pointlessly stupid is that, ffs? One of the reasons I bought my StripleR is that it's about as pure a performance motorcycle as you can buy now, unhindered by pointless electronic shite (apart from FI). I grew up on performance 2 strokes (first bike was an RD200, followed by an RG250 Mk3, then a TDR 250), and absolutely love them. I really must finish rebuilding my TDR 250 one day - proper hooligan nutter bike.

slindborg

Lol I think the bigger issue is the one you have with eu folks....
And as I said, the us regs are worse which many adhere to rather than eu as it passes the rubbish nedc anyway.
Worth a note that I think the nedc is rubbish because its completely cheatable blah blah.